Come on Harel, you are a true Wikipedian; you must have seen REAL yelling in
your time before! :)
m.
On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 12:22 AM, Harel Cain <harel.cain(a)gmail.com> wrote:
You're free to go on, I was just feeling it was
becoming less
constructive and rather uncivilized, with all that yelling going on.
Harel
On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 12:21 AM, Maysara Omar <maysara.omar(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
Harel and Moushira,
why the rush on closing this thread?!! :) Let us give time and space for
a
civilized and purposeful dialogue and
deliberation to come to fruition
and
realization!
--
Maysara
"All that is necessary to right action, is right judgment" _Rene
Descartes
On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 12:12 AM, Maysara Omar <maysara.omar(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> Dear Yohai,
> I thought it was pretty clear that this has nothing to do with me
> personally. But just to emphasize, and not to yell or anything like
this:
> THIS DISCUSSION HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ME
PERSONALLY!
> Most appreciatively,
> --
> Maysara
> "All that is necessary to right action, is right judgment." _Rene
> Descartes
>
>
> 2010/8/12 Yohai Edery <yohaied(a)gmail.com>
>>
>> Hello Maysara and all,
>>
>>
>>
>> I feel like I have to send an e-mail again regarding what you wrote
below
>> as there is a lot of miss information in
what you wrote.
>>
>>
>>
>> Firstly, let's put things on the table, as an Egyptian you are not
>> feeling good with coming to Israel as it would seem to your friends
back
>> home like you are trying to
"normalize" relations with Israel. Although
>> there are almost 30 years of peace between our countries, Egypt and
>> Egyptians have been always against normalizing relation with Israel and
in
>> fact there is a lot of incitement towards
Israel and Jews in general in
>> Egyptian media, books, cultural events and so. Israeli cultural
products
>> (movies, music, theater and such) were
band from participation in
festival
>> in Egypt even international ones held in
Egypt. The situation with
Jordan is
>> not better…unfortunately. On the
meantime, Israel has welcomed movies,
music
>> and artists from Egypt and Jordan that
have participated in festivals
and
>> events in Israel.
>>
>>
>>
>> I can guarantee that people from all over the world will have no
problem
>> coming to the event in Israel. Israeli
authorities will allow everyone
from
>> everywhere to come to Wikimania providing
he/she has not been engaged
in
>> terrorist activities…which I believe is
not the case for the
participants of
>> our event….I doubt Al Qaida, Hammas and
Hezbollah care about Wikipedia.
I
>> can tell you from past experience that
people from Libya and Lebanon
came to
>> conferences in Israel without any
trouble. The problem maybe with their
own
>> home government….but that, unfortunately,
we can't control.
>>
>>
>>
>> Again, accusation bout maltreatment and confiscation of belongings are
>> NONSENCE I want to remind you that Israel is a full functioning
democracy!!!
>> We DO NOT do things against the law and
will not confiscate anything
from
>> anyone unless there is a solid reason.
Again, I have been involved with
tens
>> of conferences in Israel and had many
friends from all over the world
coming
>> to Israel, none of them suffered from any
of those things you
maintained. I
>> would like to kindly ask you to stop with
those accusations.
>>
>>
>>
>> Regarding arriving to Israel from Cairo, again, you don’t have to do
that
>> by bus or car only like you said….you can
easily fly to Ben gurion
>> international airport in Tel Aviv on a non-stop flight from Cairo with
El-Al
>> Israeli airline or Air Sinai (part of Air
Egypt). If you need help with
>> making the reservations, I would love to help….
>>
>>
>>
>> I think that change comes from people and not for the leaders….I would
>> expect you to see this event as a great opportunity to start real
dialogue
>> between people in the Mideast and use
such an important source of
>> information like Wikipedia to a good use as a tool to bring people
together,
>> break stigmas and fight prejudice. The
only way we can live together in
>> peace is if we will get to know each other….I have visited Egypt and
Jordan
>> as well as the Palestinian territories…I
know a lot about the Arab
>> world…what do you know about me?
>>
>>
>>
>> Hopping to show you all the real face of Israel when you are hear...
>>
>>
>>
>> Good night from Haifa, Israel
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Yohai Edery
>>
>> יוחאי אדרי
>>
>>
>>
>> E-mail: yohaied(a)gmail.com
>> P Please don't print this e-mail unless you really need to
>>
>>
>>
>> From: wikimania-l-bounces(a)lists.wikimedia.org
>> [mailto:wikimania-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Maysara
Omar
>> Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 5:46 AM
>>
>> To: Wikimania general list (open subscription)
>> Subject: Re: [Wikimania-l] Problematic aspects of hosting the next
>> conference in Haifa, Israel
>>
>>
>>
>> Hello to All :)
>>
>>
>>
>> 1) Of course i am aware that the decision has already been made. I
would
>> not have brought this issue had i not
thought, (along with many others
by
>> the way who are unfortunately not here to
express themselves about
this)
>> that whatever jury took that decision has
fallen into a manifest error,
that
>> justifies a look back and
reconsideration, rather than be ignored, and
>> regardless of whether this will change things or not. The issue needs
to
be
>> addressed, because it is very important.
It is a fact, that
participants
>> from Iran, Syria, Lebanon, Palestine, and
possibly other countries,
will
>> never have the chance to attend the next
wikimania conference should it
be
>> held in Israel. Further, other
participants from other countries,
>> particularly "Arab" countries whose citizens do not usually go to
Israel for
>> any purpose, and this applies to both
Jordan and Egypt with whom Israel
is
>> in diplomatically fine terms, will find
many troubles from both the
Israeli
>> and their own governments. This is no
speculation, there are hundreds
of
>> accounts on the internet of maltreatment
and confiscation of belongings
of
>> passengers for all sorts of reasons by
Israeli officials at entry/exit
>> points. Questions asked in such aggressive tonality and attitude
regarding
>> the passengers' views and opinion of
Israel and the conflict in the
middle
>> east. Please ask the ministry of foreign
affairs, whether they will let
some
>> attendees in, if they answered these
questions as they do believe
rather
>> than fake a friendly answer!
>>
>>
>>
>> 2) If even presidential elections can be repeated because their results
>> were doubtful, i cannot see why everyone here so far is talking about
the
>> "impossibility" of
reconsidering the validity of the decision made by
the
>> jury, as though it is a sanctified or
infallible one! Somehow it seems
that
>> so far no one apart from myself, who
could get into Israel only
following a
>> car or bus ride of 8 hours from my very
home in Cairo, took the time to
>> think of the position of those who will never be permitted into Israel,
or
>> who will avoid doing so because Israel is
in fact a problematic
destination
>> for them. And regardless of whether any
of this is fair or not, we
currently
>> do have a realistic situation that is
laden with injustice and great
>> potential of practical disorder, which somehow was not raised during
the
>> decision making process, although it is
no secret or news! This
suggests
>> that non of those who will be negatively
effected by the decision, were
>> present when the process of deciding was ongoing. One of the benefits
of
>> this discussion then, is perhaps to give
more attention to such matters
as
>> representativeness, inclusive
deliberation, and outreach, in further
such
>> processes of wikimania biding and
decision making. Perhaps from now on,
we
>> should make more effort in reaching out
for, you know, "all the people
on
>> Earth" who might want to come to
wikimania with their experiences, etc.
>> Unfortunately I was not there then, and maybe i won't be able to be
there
>> later, but I do not believe that it is
too late to bring this issue
now, and
>> to attempt to correct what is wrong even
by those who, understandably,
love
>> their own country and would have loved to
see it hosting such a
wonderful
>> event. It is for a clean, freeing,
progressive, and Humanistic
experience
>> and social process that we commit
ourselves; the passing-by moments in
this
>> experience will be destructive if they
are absorbed only in the
passing-by
>> moment!
>>
>>
>>
>> Finally, Wikimania conferences must be accessible to everyone, without
>> having to speak of making "exceptions" and taking extra measures to
smoothen
>> the passage of those who participate
together everyday in creating and
>> making the new free knowledge and culture of our age and the future.
This
is
>> the position that I have chosen for
myself, rather than the one that
you ask
>> me to adopt, that is, to suggest
solutions to numberless problems and
to an
>> erroneous and unfair condition and
situation. And now I ask you, what
is
YOUR position?
:)
--
Maysara
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_______________________________________________
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--
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.
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