Gerald A wrote:
> I'm not sure what a "manifest error" is.
A manifest error is one that could be easily and visibly seen and detected. Having a conference of the nature of wikimania, in a place that will prevent many people from attending because of their nationality, is a very good example of what a "manifest error" is.
> However, the Jury is made up of smart people ...
HAHAHAHA! So what?! I am smart too! ;)
> Some presidential elections are repeated/questioned because of irregularities in the voting process. Unless you are questioning the integrity of the jury's selection process, (which I don't believe you are), then your analogy doesn't hold.
No! The purpose of the analogy was to break the stiffness that was shown in refusing the prospect of reconsideration altogether, and not because of the possibility of irregularities in the voting process, THUS, my analogy does hold! In any case, I hereby declare that both the deliberative and decision-making processes of that jury must be subjected to scrutinizing investigation, because, as a matter of fact, the concerns raised now here were actually raised since January 2010 (one year and 8 months before the date of the event!!!), HERE: [
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimania_2011/Bids/Haifa]
> My position is that while life should be fair, it is often not. [...]
My idealism is concerned with the RESULT of the decision making process, while it is you who is idealizing the process itself! If OUR very basic requirements are "beyond the scope of the organizers to address", then THEY shall not be given the responsibility of organization, rather than we abandoning our requirements(.)
> Any place that the Jury picks will make it difficult or preclude some from attending Wikimania.
I don't believe you! Any place that will make it difficult or preclude "some" from attending wikimania shall come second to a place that will not make it difficult for anyone, or will at least make it less difficult. However, how and why a place makes it difficult for "some" to attend must always be carefully considered.
--
Maysara
"All that is necessary to right action, is right judgment" _Rene Descartes
On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 8:28 AM, Gerald A
<geraldablists@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello again Maysara
Of course i am aware that the decision has already been made. [...] whatever jury took that decision has fallen into a manifest error
I'm not sure what a "manifest error" is. However, the Jury is made up of smart people, and I've assisted on a few bids for Wikimania. They
ask tough questions. Competitive cities and ordinary Wikimedians are also invited to ask questions while the bidding is going on. This is
an open and honest process, and it was during that time that questions should have been brought up. Did you ask these questions at
that time?
2) If even presidential elections can be repeated because their results were doubtful, i cannot see why everyone here so far is talking about the "impossibility" of reconsidering the validity of the decision made by the jury, as though it is a sanctified or infallible one!
Some presidential elections are repeated/questioned because of irregularities in the voting process. Unless you are questioning the integrity of the jury's selection process, (which I don't believe you are), then your analogy doesn't hold. The Jury made a decision, and you don't agree with it. That doesn't mean
it should be subject to review.
Finally, Wikimania conferences must be accessible to everyone, without having to speak of making "exceptions" and taking extra measures to smoothen the passage of those who participate together everyday in creating and making the new free knowledge and culture of our age and the future. This is the position that I have chosen for myself, rather than the one that you ask me to adopt, that is, to suggest solutions to numberless problems and to an erroneous and unfair condition and situation. And now I ask you, what is YOUR position?
My position is that while life should be fair, it is often not. While world peace and human harmony are laudable goals that I fully support, we have to live with the realities of today. Any place that the Jury picks will make it difficult or preclude some from attending Wikimania. Sometimes these considerations are geographical, sometimes they will be political, and no matter what they are, they aren't going to be fair for some.
So, in the framework of this imperfect world, we should realize that we can't accommodate everyone. And we shouldn't second guess the Wikimania Jury who spent time going through all of the various bids and questioning many organizing teams and coming to a difficult decision.
Now, you can spend a bunch of effort trying to revisit the Jury's decision, or you can expend that same effort trying to assist the current organizing team in helping to accommodate as many people as they can. Or you can even try to revise the selection criteria for future years. I'd think that the best use of effort would be in assisting others, but it is both your time and prerogative to do with as you see fit.
Gerald
_______________________________________________
Wikimania-l mailing list
Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l