[Wikimedia-l] Radiological images

[Joseph Chirum]

credits on the work should also be added to the machine operator, as they would be akin to the photographer.  However they are simply contracted, and not the independent conceptualizer of the work, in its final output.  There may be observers present, and the observer always affects the result of  the observed, in the privacy realm of patient to doctor operations, there should theoretically be at least 2 people present, at the time of the creation of the radiological image.  Therefore some median agreement of rights at least , should go to the patient and the operator in a dual fashion primarily, with the hospital or medical center having no copyright priviliges, except those under patient/operator direction.




________________________________
 From: Erlend Bjørtvedt <erlend at wikimedia.no>
To: Joseph Chirum <sundog358 at yahoo.com>; Wikimedia Mailing List <wikimedia-l at lists.wikimedia.org> 
Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 12:14 PM
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Radiological images
 


When we speak of CT or MR, the machine is in both cases operated by (at least) two persons. It seems that they perform different tasks (the machines are big and complex). It also seems that the operation of both persons is necessary for the images to be taken.
 
Quite apart from the question of who actually takes the image, the question of creative / artistic work is interesting. Is an x-ray image artistic, or is it part of a clinical process. The same really goes With the geologicing surveying image of a sea bottom taken by a geo-service vessel, the "machines" being operated by a number of crew. First question is who of them took the image, the next question is whether or not the geological mapping image is artistic at all. I think it's not.
 
Erlend



2013/9/17 Joseph Chirum <sundog358 at yahoo.com>

In my opinion, the patient is the copyright holder.  for these reasons mentioned by Erlend.  The hospital is an institution, and the photographer is an employee.  Therefore the patient is the consumer, and thus the patron, in turn forming an agreement as to the subject matter, and thus the content of the original work of technical craft, if not Art.  Artist's rights are thus rendered irrelevent if not Art, thus the traditional copyright structure of said work.
>
>Joe Chirum
>
>
>
>________________________________
> From: Katie Chan <ktc at ktchan.info>
>To: wikimedia-l at lists.wikimedia.org
>Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 10:28 AM
>Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Radiological images
>
>
>On 17/09/2013 17:47, Erlend Bjørtvedt wrote:
>> I took CR scanning recently, and reflected on who would be the right
>> copyrightholder.
>>
>> The manufacturer of the machine (Siemens) - certainly not, that would be
>> like Nikon and Canon holding rights to all photos on Commons...
>>
>> The hospital - certainly not, since there ar eindividuals running the
>> machine who are closer to the rights.
>
>Those individuals, in the case of the operators would probably / could
>well come under work for hire.
>
>> The operators - well in the case of CR there are two, and they only push a
>> button (i.e., not artistic). They are Remote from the Object, do not see
>> it, and do not Direct the skanner ("camera") to adjust or improve the final
>> image.
>
>Someone taking a photograph using a point and shoot compact camera also
>only push a button, yet the law have no problem with assigning copyright
>to the photographer.
>
>> The patient - the only real candidate in my view. While as a patient you
>> are alone With the machine, the only one present in the room, and you move
>> to get Your body in the right position (i.,e., you are the primary agent to
>> make the image successful).
>>
>> Erlend, Oslo
>
>Katie
>
>--
>Katie Chan
>Any views or opinions presented in this e-mail are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent the view of any organisation the author is associated with or employed by.
>
>
>Experience is a good school but the fees are high.
>      - Heinrich Heine
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Wikimedia-l mailing list
>Wikimedia-l at lists.wikimedia.org
>Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request at lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
>_______________________________________________
>Wikimedia-l mailing list
>Wikimedia-l at lists.wikimedia.org
>Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request at lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>


-- 

Erlend Bjørtvedt
Nestleder, Wikimedia Norge
Vice chairman, Wikimedia Norway
Mob: +47 - 9225 9227
http://no.wikimedia.org