[Wikimedia-l] Feedback for the Wikimedia Foundation

[Lodewijk]

Hi Romaine,

I'm a little confused as to what exactly you were asking for. Originally, I
understood that your point was primarily that the project was being damaged
(to the opinion of nlwiki community) because when *new users* are using the
Visual Editor, that has negative side effects which need repair by the
community. An opt-out would in no way be a solution for this of course - it
would not even be close to a compromise.

Now I understand that your main problem is that *people like yourself*
don't want to use the visual editor as it currently is. In that case a
temporary opt-out is indeed a valid compromise because it allows people
like yourself to wait with adopting the visual editor until more bugs have
been resolved. It gives you and the software time to adjust, but you will
probably keep most of the problems, as indicated by Erik Möller.

Could you please clarify?

Thanks!

Lodewijk


2013/7/24 Romaine Wiki <romaine_wiki at yahoo.com>

> I don't get it... What is the purpose of a temporary opt-out? I don't see
> what that would solve. Power users still don't have a reason to use the VE,
> performance is worse, handy tools are missing and a lot of things can't be
> done easily with VE.
>
> > As others have explained better than I, we think that users will be
> > ill-served by this opt-out, and I hope that as few users as possible will
> > choose this way to degrade their experience and deprive the community of
> > their input. Instead of endlessly arguing the point about this, I'd
> rather
> > my team and I spending our time working to make our sites better.
>
> With such lousy replies I hope that as much as users would opt-out to give
> a signal that a different approach from developers/WMF is needed for local
> communities. And read please also
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2013-July/127111.htmlPerhaps that will give an idea why many users want an opt-out.
>
>
> Romaine
>
>
>
>
> James Forrester jforrester at wikimedia.org
> Wed Jul 24 01:56:16 UTC 2013
>
> On 23 July 2013 00:01, Erik Moeller <erik at wikimedia.org> wrote:
>
> > > As I've noted in my response to wikitech-l just now, there's also the
> > > issue of what "opt-out" should mean as VE becomes increasingly more
> > > pervasive in the user experience.
> > >
> > > But as I've noted in [1], I do not think a compromise on the
> > > preference question is necessarily out of reach. I've asked James and
> > > team to deliberate on some of the possibilities here, and offered the
> > > same suggestion I noted in [1].
> > >
> >
> > [As just posted to wikitech-l]
> >
> > Because I understand the level of concern that this matter is causing, I
> am
> > changing my mind on this. For the duration of VisualEditor's "beta"
> period,
> > there will be an opt-out user preference. This will be deployed tomorrow
> > morning, San Francisco time. Once VisualEditor is out of 'beta', this
> > preference will be removed.
> >
> > As others have explained better than I, we think that users will be
> > ill-served by this opt-out, and I hope that as few users as possible will
> > choose this way to degrade their experience and deprive the community of
> > their input. Instead of endlessly arguing the point about this, I'd
> rather
> > my team and I spending our time working to make our sites better.
> >
> > Yours,
> > --
> > James D. Forrester
> > Product Manager, VisualEditor
> > Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
> >
> > jforrester at wikimedia.org | @jdforrester
>
>
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