[Wikimedia-l] WMUA chapter mailing list switched to 'read-only' mode

Mon Aug 19 19:34:29 UTC 2013

I'm really grateful for your note, Asaf

You comprehend my messages 100% right.
Perhaps even more than that, as I'm just unable to verify whether I'm a
troll (or not, hopefully).

But as to the best of my belief I'm ready to face the fact, that I'm the
troll (how can I know that for sure?) so I'm ready to stay against any
criticism
of being a troll - all kinds of 'duck test' etc., while our board prefers
just to
> *halt the debate rather than face the **criticism*
and said transformation of WMUA central mailing list is just one step in a
row (a very long one - a chain of that "multiple previous rounds").

Well, I was not going to complain (or something like that) - I was mainly
verifying the precedents  as I assured  other WMUA members that we have
something unprecedented at all (in all Wikipedia movement at least).
...and I'm still not complaining :)
Yes it's nobody else but we, WMUA people, should  (Have to, MUST) overcome
all tough issues by ourselves and a lot of that our problems are rooted in
post-USSR situation (I was born in 1956, that's just 3 years after Stalin'
death so I know what I'm talking about) hence they might appear to be
pretty (or even too) ...*specific** *for Wikimedia CH (so for Manuel), WMNL
(so for Ziko) etc. - with all due respect to Manuel, Ziko and others.

And please, PLEASE don't think that WMUA is something very bad, and even
not all of our Board members (we have 7 of them) have said problems with
facing criticism ;)

Now we're in 'full ahead' mode to start WLM'2013 and preparing to make our
Wiki loves Earth (WLE) initiative [1][2][3]  really international (it was
presented in Hong Kong recently and they say it was estimated rather well)
 and ... and ... and ... as well ;)

___

Obviously I'm not closing the topic and all and every further comments,
insights, ...peer reviews will be highly appreciated!

Thanks again, Asaf!!!

Sincerely,

Pavlo Shevelo
Proud member of WMUA

[1] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Wiki_Loves_Earth_2014
[2]
http://blog.wikimedia.org/2013/02/13/wikimedia-ukraine-new-photo-contest-wiki-loves-earth/
[3] http://wle.org.ua/english/

On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 9:05 PM, Asaf Bartov <abartov at wikimedia.org> wrote:

> When one reads the links offered by Pavlo, the picture is clearer.  The
> board is trying to suppress on-list criticism with this step, claiming
> "people" (no doubt including Pavlo) are "trolls and spammers".  I think we
> all know things are often not black and white, and that accusations of
> trolling are sometimes used by people to brand legitimate opponents (and
> sometimes people really are trolls).
>
> I can't presume to know whether Pavlo is a troll or not, or what the
> subtance of his criticism is, and how justified it may be.  WMUA's current
> leadership elected to (try to) halt the debate rather than face the
> criticism (no doubt they have engaged in multiple previous rounds as well),
> and we can assume the WMUA membership will judge their action as they see
> fit.
>
> But let's not pretend this is a question of a sudden need to set up a new
> mailing list.  That's not what this is about.
>
>    A.
>
>
> On Sun, Aug 18, 2013 at 9:54 AM, Pavlo Shevelo <pavlo.shevelo at gmail.com
> >wrote:
>
> > > WikimediaCH-l list to become a closed list due to some issues we
> > had with private information (unwillingly) disclosed on that list.
> > > Nobody questioned that change.
> >
> > The said WMUA mailing list from the moment of creation was closed for
> > anybody else but WMUA members.
> > I was one of the members, who questioned that but after explanation
> > "private
> > information might be (unwillingly) disclosed otherwise" I decided that
> it's
> > not really a matter (or an important one) and stopped questioning.
> >
> > > the chapters community / members have an appropriate place to conduct
> > their work
> >
> > Yours wording is exactly like that (above) while "what Nemo questioned"
> is:
> >
> > "do the member of the chapter have a suitable and working place where to
> > discuss among themselves to carry out their duties and rights as members
> of
> > the chapters?"
> >
> > The main issue is what is "work" for you (and "duties" for Nemo)?
> > The point of WMUA Board is that members MUST do their "work" ("carry out
> > their duties") and execution of Board ruling is part of that. So any
> > critics of Board (or separate Board members) is distraction from the work
> > :)
> >
> > The Nemo mentioned "and rights" in his questioning, so I believe his
> > perception is closer to mine (while critics or at least questioning - is
> > one of the rights for me and I guess for Nemo as well).
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Aug 18, 2013 at 6:58 PM, Manuel Schneider <
> > manuel.schneider at wikimedia.ch> wrote:
> >
> > > Am 18.08.2013 17:47, schrieb Pavlo Shevelo:
> > > > is there any precedents known, when chapter Board do some alike
> > rulings?
> > >
> > > all precedence known to me have been much less restrictive actions,
> such
> > > as the WikimediaCH-l list to become a closed list due to some issues we
> > > had with private information (unwillingly) disclosed on that list.
> > > Nobody questioned that change.
> > >
> > > > Does it seems appropriate?
> > >
> > > My personal opinion is that the board may decide so, under
> consideration
> > > of what Nemo questioned: That the chapters community / members have an
> > > appropriate place to conduct their work. This may be disputed as it was
> > > the formerly open and public list which has been closed but it could
> > > also be considered that WikiUK-l could act as such place as well.
> > > So from my point of view it is really up to the community at
> > > WikimediaUA-l and WikiUK-l whether WikiUK-l is an appropriate
> > > replacement or if another list is needed due to this change.
> > >
> > > /Manuel
> > > --
> > > Wikimedia CH - Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens
> > > Lausanne, +41 (21) 34066-22 - www.wikimedia.ch
> > >
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>
>
> --
>     Asaf Bartov
>     Wikimedia Foundation <http://www.wikimediafoundation.org>
>
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