[Foundation-l] Accuracy required

Thu Dec 9 22:32:59 UTC 2010

FT2,

Please let it go - I talked with Virgilio off-list yesterday; it sounds like
he didn't mean to stir up a storm, and would rather this thread die.

Thanks,
Ryan

On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 3:23 PM, FT2 <ft2.wiki at gmail.com> wrote:

> That won't help much.
>
> If I understand your email correctly, you want the information in order to
> protest on pt.wiki - either about your name being used or about being
> blocked for mentioning other users' names.
>
> There are problems with this.
>
>   1. The thread started by saying it is inaccurate to use a tag line "the
>   only person ruled by an arbcom under a real name (in the title)". Cases
>   exist (eg enwiki Arbcom)
>   2. Each project is independent. What enwiki does may truthfully be
>   different from ruwiki, ptwiki, dewiki. wikis can be very different and
> their
>   internal decisions on these things can be compared but it is not going to
>   persuade anyone about pt.wiki, if you try and argue about events on some
>   other wiki.
>   3. Even on a single wiki, treatment may vary within context. For example
>   on enwiki a user may be blocked indefinitely for naming another user's
> real
>   name, or an arbcom case may even be named after a real name. What is the
>   difference?  In the first case the real name was not public, in the
> second
>   case the real name was also their username. So a lot varies depending on
>   context and community.
>   4. You may be the only person dealt with under a real name *by
> pt-arbcom*.
>   But nobody has said you were or weren't.
>
> Hope this helps?
>
> FT2
>
> On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 7:37 PM, Virgilio A. P. Machado <vam at fct.unl.pt
> >wrote:
>
> > 1) No real names will be disclosed on this list on account of the request
> > made.
> >
> > 2) No action is asked or expected.
> >
> > These two personal commitments are important before answering an
> > absolutely legitimate request for clarification: "why [is] this issue
> > of such [...] importance to the thread-creator."
> >
> > It is very important for this user. Most are now familiar with the
> > use of his real name by the pt.wiki arbcom.
> >
> >
> >
> http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Conselho_de_arbitragem/Casos/2009-09-01_Virg%C3%ADlio_A._P._Machado
> > and
> >
> >
> >
> http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_Discuss%C3%A3o:Conselho_de_arbitragem/Casos/2009-09-01_Virg%C3%ADlio_A._P._Machado
> >
> > That never bothered the user or the foregone decision to filter his
> > edits for infinity, a period that far exceeds his expected natural
> > life. The 53 irregularities that overshadowed the case bothered him a
> > great deal more.
> >
> > What is not so well known is that four months later, while quietly
> > working on a new subpage, after listing the real names of two users,
> > this was used against him and eventually led to him being blocked or
> > banned (depending on the page you look at) for infinity, by the same
> > administrator, bureaucrat, checkuser, and arbcom member (hopefully no
> > title was left out) that led the arbcom in the case using his real name.
> >
> > It is very important for the pt.wiki.
> >
> > The governance of the pt.wiki is in such disrepair that this user
> > felt compelled to gather as much information as possible on a Meta
> > page. Soon, that work was under attack by the same user mentioned
> > above and one of his accomplices, and his now on hold as a user subpage:
> >
> >
> >
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Vapmachado/Portuguese_Wikipedia_governance_issues
> >
> >
> >
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Vapmachado/Portuguese_Wikipedia_governance_issues
> >
> > This modest work was started in May 4, 2010, well before the
> > following reports on Meta:
> >
> > October 2010 -
> >
> >
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Sir_Lestaty_de_Lioncourt/Archive/October/2010
> >
> > November 2010 -
> >
> >
> http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Conselho_de_arbitragem/Casos/2010-12-01_Poss%C3%ADvel_abuso_em_verifica%C3%A7%C3%B5es
> >
> >
> >
> http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_Discuss%C3%A3o:Conselho_de_arbitragem/Casos/2010-12-01_Poss%C3%ADvel_abuso_em_verifica%C3%A7%C3%B5es
> >
> > http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Stewards'_noticeboard<http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Stewards%27_noticeboard>
> >
> > It is very important to the communities at large.
> >
> > Unaware of the existence of this essay
> > (http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Kylu/Essay and
> > http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Kylu/Essay), this user
> > opened a request for comment on Meta on "What is public and
> > non-public personal information?"
> > (
> >
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Public_or_non-public_personal_information
> > and
> >
> >
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Requests_for_comment/Public_or_non-public_personal_information
> > )
> > which brought to the fore some of fears, tabus and misconceptions
> > that are quite widespread on Wikimedia projects.
> >
> > It is hoped that the above explanations fully justify the statement
> > that the user was interested in the information requested "For
> > reasons of the utmost importance, not only to this user but to the
> > communities at large." as it would provide more evidence of real
> > names being used, without leading to the blocking or banning of the
> > arbcoms that used them in the TITLE of a case.
> >
> > Due to the sensitivity of the matter, this user wishes to withdraw
> > his request, and apologizes for any anxiety he might have caused in
> > some members of this list.  What happened to him is evidence enough.
> > If there are no further questions concerning this request, it will
> > now be considered closed. For inquires, opinions, and/or debate about
> > other matters mentioned above, both this user and the listed talk
> > pages are available to all.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> >
> > Virgilio A. P. Machado (Vapmachado)
> > "Co-author" of "A civilized community"
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Vapmachado/Comment_draft
> >
> >
> > At 01:17 09-12-2010, you wrote:
> > >On the English Wikipedia, we generally try to avoid bringing editors'
> real
> > >names into decisions, unless the username is the real name.  In the
> three
> > >years I've been an arbitrator, we have extended this courtesy even to
> some
> > >highly troublesome users.  (Aficionadoes of the En-WP arbitration pages
> > will
> > >recognize the "Mantanmoreland" and "MZMcBride 2" cases as examples.)
> > >
> > >I am not clear, however, on why this issue of such such importance to
> the
> > >thread-creator.
> > >
> > >Newyorkbrad
> >
> >
> >  _______________________________________________
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> >
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[[User:Ral315]]