[Foundation-l] Accuracy required

Thu Dec 9 23:16:50 UTC 2010

Sure (and in reply to your off-list mail, it's fine, easily done).

The questions seemed genuine and seeking a genuine explanation. If it's been
covered elsewhere that's good enough.

FT2

On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 10:32 PM, Ryan Lomonaco <wiki.ral315 at gmail.com>wrote:

> FT2,
>
> Please let it go - I talked with Virgilio off-list yesterday; it sounds
> like
> he didn't mean to stir up a storm, and would rather this thread die.
>
> Thanks,
> Ryan
>
> On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 3:23 PM, FT2 <ft2.wiki at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > That won't help much.
> >
> > If I understand your email correctly, you want the information in order
> to
> > protest on pt.wiki - either about your name being used or about being
> > blocked for mentioning other users' names.
> >
> > There are problems with this.
> >
> >   1. The thread started by saying it is inaccurate to use a tag line "the
> >   only person ruled by an arbcom under a real name (in the title)". Cases
> >   exist (eg enwiki Arbcom)
> >   2. Each project is independent. What enwiki does may truthfully be
> >   different from ruwiki, ptwiki, dewiki. wikis can be very different and
> > their
> >   internal decisions on these things can be compared but it is not going
> to
> >   persuade anyone about pt.wiki, if you try and argue about events on
> some
> >   other wiki.
> >   3. Even on a single wiki, treatment may vary within context. For
> example
> >   on enwiki a user may be blocked indefinitely for naming another user's
> > real
> >   name, or an arbcom case may even be named after a real name. What is
> the
> >   difference?  In the first case the real name was not public, in the
> > second
> >   case the real name was also their username. So a lot varies depending
> on
> >   context and community.
> >   4. You may be the only person dealt with under a real name *by
>  > pt-arbcom*.
> >   But nobody has said you were or weren't.
> >
> > Hope this helps?
> >
> > FT2
> >
> > On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 7:37 PM, Virgilio A. P. Machado <vam at fct.unl.pt
> > >wrote:
> >
> > > 1) No real names will be disclosed on this list on account of the
> request
> > > made.
> > >
> > > 2) No action is asked or expected.
> > >
> > > These two personal commitments are important before answering an
> > > absolutely legitimate request for clarification: "why [is] this issue
> > > of such [...] importance to the thread-creator."
> > >
> > > It is very important for this user. Most are now familiar with the
> > > use of his real name by the pt.wiki arbcom.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Conselho_de_arbitragem/Casos/2009-09-01_Virg%C3%ADlio_A._P._Machado
> > > and
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_Discuss%C3%A3o:Conselho_de_arbitragem/Casos/2009-09-01_Virg%C3%ADlio_A._P._Machado
> > >
> > > That never bothered the user or the foregone decision to filter his
> > > edits for infinity, a period that far exceeds his expected natural
> > > life. The 53 irregularities that overshadowed the case bothered him a
> > > great deal more.
> > >
> > > What is not so well known is that four months later, while quietly
> > > working on a new subpage, after listing the real names of two users,
> > > this was used against him and eventually led to him being blocked or
> > > banned (depending on the page you look at) for infinity, by the same
> > > administrator, bureaucrat, checkuser, and arbcom member (hopefully no
> > > title was left out) that led the arbcom in the case using his real
> name.
> > >
> > > It is very important for the pt.wiki.
> > >
> > > The governance of the pt.wiki is in such disrepair that this user
> > > felt compelled to gather as much information as possible on a Meta
> > > page. Soon, that work was under attack by the same user mentioned
> > > above and one of his accomplices, and his now on hold as a user
> subpage:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Vapmachado/Portuguese_Wikipedia_governance_issues
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Vapmachado/Portuguese_Wikipedia_governance_issues
> > >
> > > This modest work was started in May 4, 2010, well before the
> > > following reports on Meta:
> > >
> > > October 2010 -
> > >
> > >
> >
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Sir_Lestaty_de_Lioncourt/Archive/October/2010
> > >
> > > November 2010 -
> > >
> > >
> >
> http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Conselho_de_arbitragem/Casos/2010-12-01_Poss%C3%ADvel_abuso_em_verifica%C3%A7%C3%B5es
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_Discuss%C3%A3o:Conselho_de_arbitragem/Casos/2010-12-01_Poss%C3%ADvel_abuso_em_verifica%C3%A7%C3%B5es
> > >
> > > http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Stewards'_noticeboard<
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Stewards%27_noticeboard>
>  > >
> > > It is very important to the communities at large.
> > >
> > > Unaware of the existence of this essay
> > > (http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Kylu/Essay and
> > > http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Kylu/Essay), this user
> > > opened a request for comment on Meta on "What is public and
> > > non-public personal information?"
> > > (
> > >
> >
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Public_or_non-public_personal_information
> > > and
> > >
> > >
> >
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Requests_for_comment/Public_or_non-public_personal_information
> > > )
> > > which brought to the fore some of fears, tabus and misconceptions
> > > that are quite widespread on Wikimedia projects.
> > >
> > > It is hoped that the above explanations fully justify the statement
> > > that the user was interested in the information requested "For
> > > reasons of the utmost importance, not only to this user but to the
> > > communities at large." as it would provide more evidence of real
> > > names being used, without leading to the blocking or banning of the
> > > arbcoms that used them in the TITLE of a case.
> > >
> > > Due to the sensitivity of the matter, this user wishes to withdraw
> > > his request, and apologizes for any anxiety he might have caused in
> > > some members of this list.  What happened to him is evidence enough.
> > > If there are no further questions concerning this request, it will
> > > now be considered closed. For inquires, opinions, and/or debate about
> > > other matters mentioned above, both this user and the listed talk
> > > pages are available to all.
> > >
> > > Sincerely,
> > >
> > > Virgilio A. P. Machado (Vapmachado)
> > > "Co-author" of "A civilized community"
> > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Vapmachado/Comment_draft
> > >
> > >
> > > At 01:17 09-12-2010, you wrote:
> > > >On the English Wikipedia, we generally try to avoid bringing editors'
> > real
> > > >names into decisions, unless the username is the real name.  In the
> > three
> > > >years I've been an arbitrator, we have extended this courtesy even to
> > some
> > > >highly troublesome users.  (Aficionadoes of the En-WP arbitration
> pages
> > > will
> > > >recognize the "Mantanmoreland" and "MZMcBride 2" cases as examples.)
> > > >
> > > >I am not clear, however, on why this issue of such such importance to
> > the
> > > >thread-creator.
> > > >
> > > >Newyorkbrad
> > >
> > >
> > >  _______________________________________________
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> > > foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org
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> > >
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> >
>
>
>
> --
> [[User:Ral315]]
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