[WikiEN-l] Privacy Study Looking for Volunteers

Mon Mar 30 14:32:38 UTC 2015

Or perhaps you're reading far too much into it, and in the process,
being incredibly rude to the WMF employees reading this thread, who
are people too, and don't particularly appreciate being compared to
the NSA. If you're trying to have a constructive discussion, you
should pick a better format and attitude.

On 29 March 2015 at 19:02, Brian J Mingus <brian.mingus at colorado.edu> wrote:
> The notice just says that the IP is public. Most people have no idea what
> that means.
>
> It will absolutely make those problems harder. Perhaps it is the
> Foundation's trusted role to hide that information from the public and be
> trusted with it on the backend. This institutional design sounds similar to
> another institution in certain ways..
>
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 29, 2015 at 6:58 PM, Dustin Muniz <dahowe at bsugmail.net> wrote:
>
>> People are made aware with each edit as an I am that their information is
>> publicly available. What concerns me about removing IP information is that
>> it'll remove our ability to fight spam, detect socks, and respond to
>> emergency@ issues, unless I've missed something?
>>
>>
>> Sent from Samsung Mobile
>>
>>
>> -------- Original message --------
>> From: Brian J Mingus
>> Date:03-29-2015 4:36 PM (GMT-05:00)
>> To: David Carson
>> Cc: English Wikipedia
>> Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Privacy Study Looking for Volunteers
>>
>> Wikipedia is set up such that if you don't take the measures mentioned in
>> the OP, you are dox'ing yourself. Users are not aware of this.
>>
>> On Sun, Mar 29, 2015 at 4:33 PM, David Carson <carson63000 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > "Wikipedia:Free speech" (
>> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Free_speech) is probably worth a
>> > read.
>> >
>> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Free_speech
>> >
>> > It's not directly about privacy but I think it clearly covers the ground
>> > that Wikipedia is a project to create an online encyclopedia, not an
>> > experiment in radical free speech. The system is set up to facilitate
>> that
>> > goal.
>> >
>> > If you think that recording IP addresses is invasive, then you should
>> > probably be publishing your content on your own website, not Wikipedia.
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> > David...
>> >
>> >
>> > On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 5:10 AM, Brian J Mingus <
>> brian.mingus at colorado.edu
>> > > wrote:
>> >
>> >> In general people do not read privacy policies, nor do they understand
>> >> what
>> >> IP addresses are or what you can do with them.
>> >>
>> >> But if you recall, I simply stated that recording IP addresses is
>> >> invasive.
>> >> And it is.
>> >>
>> >> This is especially true when you know that your recordings are
>> faciliating
>> >> the active de-anonymization of people who are editing Wikipedia. Not
>> just
>> >> de-anonymization, but often public shaming.
>> >>
>> >> For WMF, the principle of neutrality clearly trumps the principles of
>> >> privacy and free speech. For the NSA, substitute security for
>> neutrality.
>> >> It's hypocritical.
>> >>
>> >> Luckily, it's easy to fix. Just stuff the ip fields with random numbers
>> >> and
>> >> deal with the fallout. Stop tracking people.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Sun, Mar 29, 2015 at 2:02 PM, Oliver Keyes <okeyes at wikimedia.org>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > In order:
>> >> >
>> >> > 1. Yes, the WMF is suing the NSA. There are a few threads/blog posts
>> >> > about this people here can point you to.
>> >> > 2. Brian: The NSA needs to store data without the permission or
>> >> > consent of the people generating it, sometimes through forcible
>> >> > interception, decryption and the introduction and maintenance of
>> >> > software exploits that allow them to do this but also allow any other
>> >> > reasonably technical nation or non-nation actor who is paying
>> >> > attention to exploit the same vulnerability, keeping this data for an
>> >> > indefinite period, with very little legal or political oversight, in
>> >> > order to stop terrorism, where very little evidence exists that this
>> >> > has helped in any way.
>> >> >
>> >> > The WMF needs to store data for a 90 day period, which is explicitly
>> >> > set down in a privacy policy that is transparent, human-readable,
>> >> > linked from every edit interface, written with the involvement of the
>> >> > people whose data is being stored, administered by a committee of
>> >> > people who come from this population of editors, and explicitly sets
>> >> > out what the data may or may not be used for, even within the
>> >> > Wikimedia Foundation, in order to stop vandalism, where multiple
>> >> > scientific studies have validated the hypothesis that being able to
>> >> > make rangeblocks and prohibit sockpuppetry is beneficial to the
>> >> > community we are all a part of and the wider population of readers.
>> >> >
>> >> > That's what's actually going on, here. If you thing these situations
>> >> > are roughly analogous, that's your prerogative. If you think the
>> >> > storage of this data is unnecessary, I recommend you go to your local
>> >> > project and explain to them that being able to checkuser potential
>> >> > sockpuppets or hard-block users is not needed: gaining consensus there
>> >> > would be a good starting point to changing this.
>> >> >
>> >> > On 29 March 2015 at 11:57, James Farrar <james.farrar at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >> > > Wikipedia is suing the NSA? Seriously?
>> >> > > On 28 Mar 2015 11:23, "Brian J Mingus" <brian.mingus at colorado.edu>
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> > >
>> >> > >> It has worked up to now, but I'm thinking that, especially given
>> >> > Wikimedia
>> >> > >> is suing the NSA, it is no longer justifiable. If the NSA can't
>> track
>> >> > >> citizens, Wikimedia shouldn't be tracking them either. Seems simple
>> >> :)
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 2:56 PM, Francesco Ariis <fa-ml at ariis.it>
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> > On Wed, Mar 25, 2015 at 01:19:35PM -0400, Brian J Mingus wrote:
>> >> > >> > > I think it's rather curious that edits to Wikipedia aren't
>> >> private.
>> >> > Why
>> >> > >> > log
>> >> > >> > > the IP address? Why log anything? It's invasive.
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> > I guess it's a sensible choice against abuse (vandalism) while
>> >> still
>> >> > >> > allowing non registered users editing rights
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> > _______________________________________________
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>> >> > >> >
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>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> > Oliver Keyes
>> >> > Research Analyst
>> >> > Wikimedia Foundation
>> >> >
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-- 
Oliver Keyes
Research Analyst
Wikimedia Foundation