[WikiEN-l] Privacy Study Looking for Volunteers

Mon Mar 30 15:00:51 UTC 2015

I propose we run a study. We will survey random editors and ask them if
they realize that there is a chance they are leaking enough information for
their identity to be revealed. *Even if they are logged in.*

Regarding comparisons - institutions have structure, and if there is a
structure mapping, then it's a matter of fact. A given mapping will have
strengths and weaknesses. You may prefer one mapping to another. If you
have reasons for preferring one mapping (other than that it offends you),
I'm all ears. But be aware: simply changing the vocabulary that you use to
describe the space doesn't mean that two different descriptions of
institutions aren't in fact describing a construct that is more similar
than different, or that is similar in important ways.

This is all to say, there are often reasons that institutions like the NSA
and WMF are structured the way they are. Given the investment in the topic,
it's probably worth exploring how the institutional structures emerged. But
given the investment, confirmation bias may prevail in this case: even if
there are important similarities, nobody wants to look like a hypocrite.

That's OK, though. Much as I am invested in Wikipedia and appreciate the
WMF, if I turn out to be a hypocrite, *I* will call myself one. Just as I
will do it to others.

Best,

Brian

"*Other dogs bite only their enemies, whereas I bite also my friends.*" -
Diogenes the Cynic

On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 10:32 AM, Oliver Keyes <okeyes at wikimedia.org> wrote:

> Or perhaps you're reading far too much into it, and in the process,
> being incredibly rude to the WMF employees reading this thread, who
> are people too, and don't particularly appreciate being compared to
> the NSA. If you're trying to have a constructive discussion, you
> should pick a better format and attitude.
>
> On 29 March 2015 at 19:02, Brian J Mingus <brian.mingus at colorado.edu>
> wrote:
> > The notice just says that the IP is public. Most people have no idea what
> > that means.
> >
> > It will absolutely make those problems harder. Perhaps it is the
> > Foundation's trusted role to hide that information from the public and be
> > trusted with it on the backend. This institutional design sounds similar
> to
> > another institution in certain ways..
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Mar 29, 2015 at 6:58 PM, Dustin Muniz <dahowe at bsugmail.net>
> wrote:
> >
> >> People are made aware with each edit as an I am that their information
> is
> >> publicly available. What concerns me about removing IP information is
> that
> >> it'll remove our ability to fight spam, detect socks, and respond to
> >> emergency@ issues, unless I've missed something?
> >>
> >>
> >> Sent from Samsung Mobile
> >>
> >>
> >> -------- Original message --------
> >> From: Brian J Mingus
> >> Date:03-29-2015 4:36 PM (GMT-05:00)
> >> To: David Carson
> >> Cc: English Wikipedia
> >> Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Privacy Study Looking for Volunteers
> >>
> >> Wikipedia is set up such that if you don't take the measures mentioned
> in
> >> the OP, you are dox'ing yourself. Users are not aware of this.
> >>
> >> On Sun, Mar 29, 2015 at 4:33 PM, David Carson <carson63000 at gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> > "Wikipedia:Free speech" (
> >> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Free_speech) is probably
> worth a
> >> > read.
> >> >
> >> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Free_speech
> >> >
> >> > It's not directly about privacy but I think it clearly covers the
> ground
> >> > that Wikipedia is a project to create an online encyclopedia, not an
> >> > experiment in radical free speech. The system is set up to facilitate
> >> that
> >> > goal.
> >> >
> >> > If you think that recording IP addresses is invasive, then you should
> >> > probably be publishing your content on your own website, not
> Wikipedia.
> >> >
> >> > Cheers,
> >> > David...
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 5:10 AM, Brian J Mingus <
> >> brian.mingus at colorado.edu
> >> > > wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> In general people do not read privacy policies, nor do they
> understand
> >> >> what
> >> >> IP addresses are or what you can do with them.
> >> >>
> >> >> But if you recall, I simply stated that recording IP addresses is
> >> >> invasive.
> >> >> And it is.
> >> >>
> >> >> This is especially true when you know that your recordings are
> >> faciliating
> >> >> the active de-anonymization of people who are editing Wikipedia. Not
> >> just
> >> >> de-anonymization, but often public shaming.
> >> >>
> >> >> For WMF, the principle of neutrality clearly trumps the principles of
> >> >> privacy and free speech. For the NSA, substitute security for
> >> neutrality.
> >> >> It's hypocritical.
> >> >>
> >> >> Luckily, it's easy to fix. Just stuff the ip fields with random
> numbers
> >> >> and
> >> >> deal with the fallout. Stop tracking people.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> On Sun, Mar 29, 2015 at 2:02 PM, Oliver Keyes <okeyes at wikimedia.org>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > In order:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > 1. Yes, the WMF is suing the NSA. There are a few threads/blog
> posts
> >> >> > about this people here can point you to.
> >> >> > 2. Brian: The NSA needs to store data without the permission or
> >> >> > consent of the people generating it, sometimes through forcible
> >> >> > interception, decryption and the introduction and maintenance of
> >> >> > software exploits that allow them to do this but also allow any
> other
> >> >> > reasonably technical nation or non-nation actor who is paying
> >> >> > attention to exploit the same vulnerability, keeping this data for
> an
> >> >> > indefinite period, with very little legal or political oversight,
> in
> >> >> > order to stop terrorism, where very little evidence exists that
> this
> >> >> > has helped in any way.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > The WMF needs to store data for a 90 day period, which is
> explicitly
> >> >> > set down in a privacy policy that is transparent, human-readable,
> >> >> > linked from every edit interface, written with the involvement of
> the
> >> >> > people whose data is being stored, administered by a committee of
> >> >> > people who come from this population of editors, and explicitly
> sets
> >> >> > out what the data may or may not be used for, even within the
> >> >> > Wikimedia Foundation, in order to stop vandalism, where multiple
> >> >> > scientific studies have validated the hypothesis that being able to
> >> >> > make rangeblocks and prohibit sockpuppetry is beneficial to the
> >> >> > community we are all a part of and the wider population of readers.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > That's what's actually going on, here. If you thing these
> situations
> >> >> > are roughly analogous, that's your prerogative. If you think the
> >> >> > storage of this data is unnecessary, I recommend you go to your
> local
> >> >> > project and explain to them that being able to checkuser potential
> >> >> > sockpuppets or hard-block users is not needed: gaining consensus
> there
> >> >> > would be a good starting point to changing this.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > On 29 March 2015 at 11:57, James Farrar <james.farrar at gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >> > > Wikipedia is suing the NSA? Seriously?
> >> >> > > On 28 Mar 2015 11:23, "Brian J Mingus" <
> brian.mingus at colorado.edu>
> >> >> > wrote:
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >> It has worked up to now, but I'm thinking that, especially given
> >> >> > Wikimedia
> >> >> > >> is suing the NSA, it is no longer justifiable. If the NSA can't
> >> track
> >> >> > >> citizens, Wikimedia shouldn't be tracking them either. Seems
> simple
> >> >> :)
> >> >> > >>
> >> >> > >> On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 2:56 PM, Francesco Ariis <
> fa-ml at ariis.it>
> >> >> > wrote:
> >> >> > >>
> >> >> > >> > On Wed, Mar 25, 2015 at 01:19:35PM -0400, Brian J Mingus
> wrote:
> >> >> > >> > > I think it's rather curious that edits to Wikipedia aren't
> >> >> private.
> >> >> > Why
> >> >> > >> > log
> >> >> > >> > > the IP address? Why log anything? It's invasive.
> >> >> > >> >
> >> >> > >> > I guess it's a sensible choice against abuse (vandalism) while
> >> >> still
> >> >> > >> > allowing non registered users editing rights
> >> >> > >> >
> >> >> > >> >
> >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________
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> >> >> > >> > WikiEN-l at lists.wikimedia.org
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> >> >> > >> >
> >> >> > >> _______________________________________________
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> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > --
> >> >> > Oliver Keyes
> >> >> > Research Analyst
> >> >> > Wikimedia Foundation
> >> >> >
> >> >> _______________________________________________
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> >> >
> >> >
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>
> --
> Oliver Keyes
> Research Analyst
> Wikimedia Foundation
>
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