[WikiEN-l] I despair

Mon Apr 16 02:56:34 UTC 2007

Guy JzG wrote:
> In this case the stub was a single sentence which included a false
> claim.  So that didn't work.

This is untrue Guy. The claim in that single sentence was that Guille
is leader of the Canadian Heritage Alliance and a Lexis-Nexis search
returns a number of reliable sources that say exactly that. Moreover,
it also returns several references, in headlines no less, to  her
being a "white supremacist". I don't see how your deletion and SALTING
of the article is justifiable and if you'd done a simple search you
would have known not to do it.

At the Deletion Review debate at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review/Log/2007_April_14#Melissa_Guille
you seem to be more upset at being challenged than anything else and
are rallying for people to support you. That's perfectly human and I
don't want to chastize you for it, but it's also incompatible with
being a professional. Rather than taking a sober second look, you've
dug in your heels and asked your friends to support you and a number
of them are but reading the Deletion Review it looks like they're
supporting you blindly and not actually looking at the article or
looking at sources. This isn't good for wikipedia, we should be better
able to scrutinize one another's work without oversensitivity or
blindness.

Doing a free Lexis-Nexis a la carte search at
http://alacarte.lexisnexis.com /partners/int/lexisnews/srchNW.
asp?mtid=1&srchmode=2 for "Melissa Guille" for all available dates of
non-US and wire sources this is what I find and, I'm sorry Guy, but it
looks like there's more than enough to justify the claims that you
describe as "defamation". Frankly, it looks like  you've been had.

WH0 ARE THEY?; FREE PRESS REPORTER RANDY RICHMOND PROFILES THE MOST
PROMINENT WHITE SUPREMACISTS IN LONDON. THEIR BACKGROUNDS RANGE FROM
UNIVERSITY HISTORY GRADUATE TO DIGITAL DESIGNER TO FORMER BRINKS
DRIVER.
 London Free Press (Ontario)  - 3/28/2005  - 406 words
  Melissa Guille The white supremacist movement attracts far fewer
women than men. That makes Londoner  Melissa Guille unusual enough.
Even more surprising, she leads a white supremacist group with a high
profile in Canada. That has made  Guille, a single mother of one
teenage boy, the white supremacist movement's...

  View now for $3.00
________________________________

Pride leader faces charges; Melissa Guille, one of few female white
supremacy organizers, is facing human rights charges.
 London Free Press (Ontario)  - 11/20/2006  - 448 words
  One of the few female organizers in Canada's white pride movement,
and a potential national leader, is to appear today on charges she
violated Canada's Human Rights Act. Melissa Guille and her
Southwestern Ontario-based Canadian Heritage Alliance have been
brought before a Canadian human rights tribunal in Toronto on...

  View now for $3.00
________________________________

RIGHTS COMMISSION TO QUIZ LONDONER; THE COMPLAINT AGAINST MELISSA
GUILLE ALLEGES THAT HER WEBSITE INCITES ETHNIC HATRED.
 London Free Press (Ontario)  - 12/18/2005  - 505 words
  Another leader of London's white supremacy movement faces a grilling
at a Canadian human rights tribunal hearing. A complaint against
Melissa Guille, head of the Canadian Heritage Alliance, has been
investigated by the Canadian Human Rights Commission and referred to a
tribunal hearing, Ottawa lawyer Richard Warman said yesterday....

  View now for $3.00
________________________________

CITY COPS WARN OF RACIST UPSURGE; POLICE LINK THREE WHITE SUPREMACIST
GROUPS IN LONDON WITH INCREASED DANGER OFVIOLENCE.
 London Free Press (Ontario, Canada)  - 10/31/2002  - 674 words
  Three white supremacy groups have set up operations in London,
police and activists warn, sparking fears of violence and racist
activities in the city. Already one assault on a non-white male has
been linked by police to members of what they believe are hate groups.
But a leader of...

  View now for $3.00
________________________________

'Not promoting hate'; Leader of white supremacy group says it doesn't
have a racist agenda
 The Record (Kitchener-Waterloo, Ontario)  - 2/27/2001  - 598 words
  One of the leaders of a new Kitchener-Waterloo group denied
yesterday that it has a racist agenda. B'nai Brith Canada and Waterloo
regional police have both identified the Canadian Heritage Alliance as
a white supremacy organization with ties to established hate groups.
But in an interview through the doorway...

  View now for $3.00
________________________________

Group leader denies racist agenda
 The Cambridge Reporter  - 2/27/2001  - 429 words
  One of the leaders of a new Kitchener-Waterloo group denied
yesterday that it has a racist agenda. B'nai Brith Canada and Waterloo
regional police have both identified the Canadian Heritage Alliance as
a white supremacy organization with ties to established hate groups.
But in an interview through the doorway...

  View now for $3.00
________________________________

Kitchener: White supremacist group adopts local road; 'We should not
give this space and publicity to this group,' says head of anti-racism
program
 The Cambridge Reporter  - 4/18/2001  - 631 words
  Critics claim Waterloo Region appears to have been unwittingly duped
by a white supremacist group in agreeing to post its name on a sign in
the region's "adopt-a-road" program. "Mistakes happen but let's clear
them up," said Matthew Lauder, a Waterloo resident who is director of
the anti-racism program...

  View now for $3.00
________________________________

Year 12 MERITS
 The Advertiser  - 12/31/1999  - 5422 words
  The Senior Secondary Assessment Board of South Australia awards
merit certificates to Year 12 students who have attained a subject
achievement socre of 20 out of 20 in any subject. The following 993
names are the names of merit certificate winners for 1999, as supplied
by SSABSA. A total of 996 students received merits, but...

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________________________________

WHY ARE THEY HERE?; LONDON POLICE AND CIVIC OFFICIALS TEND TO PLAY
DOWN THE PRESENCE OF ORGANIZED HATE. BUT ANTI-HATE GROUPS SAY THERE'S
A SERIOUS PROBLEM. INDISPUTABLE IS THE FACT THAT LONDON IS HOME TO AT
LEAST TWO WHITE SUPREMACIST GROUPS AND THEIR LEADERS.
 London Free Press (Ontario)  - 3/26/2005  - 1461 words
  The word hate comes easily to Londoner Tomasz Winnicki. "We do hate
. . . the negroes and other mud races who flood into our clean, white
civilizations and then wreck them," he e-mails in response to a
request for an interview. "We hate the Jew: the media Jew, the banking
Jew,...

  View now for $3.00
________________________________

WHO ARE THEY?; OTHERS
 London Free Press (Ontario)  - 3/28/2005  - 230 words
  Other notable white supremacists in the London area include: TYLER
CHILCOTT: Longtime member of the Northern Alliance, who complained his
rights were violated when London police wrote a letter to the group
requesting attendance at a meeting at the police station. He was
involved in a fracas between white...

LONDONER, GROUP FACE RIGHTS COMPLAINT
 London Free Press (Ontario, Canada)  - 10/25/2004  - 428 words
  Another high-profile member of London's white supremacist network,
and a city white supremacist group, are facing a complaint filed with
the Canadian Human Rights Commission. Melissa Guille and the Canadian
Heritage Alliance are the subject of a complaint filed by Ottawa
lawyer Richard Warman.  Guille is well-known in supremacist...

  View now for $3.00
________________________________

Ontario group denies police allegations it has racist agenda
 Guelph Mercury (Ontario, Canada)  - 2/27/2001  - 209 words
  One of the leaders of the Canadian Heritage Alliance denies the new
group has a racist agenda. B'nai Brith Canada and Waterloo Region
police have both identified the Canadian Heritage Alliance as a white
supremacy organization with ties to established hate groups. "We are a
nationalist group, not a...

  View now for $3.00
________________________________

No racist agenda, organization insists
 North Bay Nugget (Ontario)  - 2/27/2001  - 235 words
  WATERLOO (CP) One of the leaders of the Canadian Heritage Alliance
denies the new group has a racist agenda. B'nai Brith Canada and
Waterloo Region police have both identified the Canadian Heritage
Alliance as a white supremacy organization with ties to established
hate groups. ``We are a nationalist group,...

  View now for $3.00
________________________________

No racist agenda, organization insists
 North Bay Nugget (Ontario)  - 2/27/2001  - 235 words
  WATERLOO (CP) One of the leaders of the Canadian Heritage Alliance
denies the new group has a racist agenda. B'nai Brith Canada and
Waterloo Region police have both identified the Canadian Heritage
Alliance as a white supremacy organization with ties to established
hate groups. ``We are a nationalist group,...

  View now for $3.00
________________________________

Deaths & Funerals
 Times Colonist (Victoria, British Columbia)  - 1/30/2007  - 1844 words
  GRANT, Harold Beverley Born in Weyburn, Saskatchewan on December 4
1919 Harold passed away on January 28, 2007. Predeceased by his wife
Elva (1983) and son Jim (2002), and survived by his four children
Barbara (Henry), Ron (Brenda), Judy (Ralph), Ken (Carol), sister
Phyllis, eight grandchildren, five great grandchildren, seven step
great grandchildren, 2 step grandchildren...

  View now for $3.00
________________________________

Rights groups offended by sign
 The Record (Kitchener-Waterloo, Ontario)  - 4/18/2001  - 745 words
  A white supremacist group appears to have duped Waterloo Region into
posting its name on a sign in the region's "adopt-a-road" program,
critics say. "Mistakes happen, but let's clear them up," said Matthew
Lauder, a Waterloo resident who is director of the anti-racism program
at the Guelph and District...

  View now for $3.00
________________________________

WATERLOO SUPREMACIST GROUP HAS ROAD 'ADOPTION' REVOKED
 The Toronto Star  - 4/19/2001  - 403 words
  Sign is plucked from roadside Liz Monteiro TORSTAR NEWS SERVICE
KITCHENER - Waterloo Region moved quickly yesterday morning to correct
an embarrassing mistake. By 11 a.m., five workers, including a road
supervisor, were removing a sign for the region's "adopt-a-road"
program from Dickie Settlement Rd. The sign, bearing the name of...

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________________________________

SCALDED DOG SENTENCE LABELLED 'SLAP ON THE WRIST'
 The Daily Herald-Tribune (Grande Prairie, Alberta)  - 2/9/2004  - 233 words
  Animal welfare organizations were upset Friday after a judge fined a
woman $200 for seriously scalding her pet dog. ''We're concerned this
sends a message that animal abuse is not to be taken seriously and
perhaps that animals aren't valued as much in society as they should
be,'' said

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________________________________

Kitchener; White supremacist group's sign yanked
 The Cambridge Reporter  - 4/19/2001  - 256 words
  The Region of Waterloo moved quickly yesterday morning to correct an
embarrassing mistake. By 11 a.m., five regional workers, including a
road supervisor, were removing a sign with the region's "adopt-a-road"
program from Dickie Settlement Road. The sign was sponsored by the
local white supremacist group, the Canadian Heritage Alliance....

  View now for $3.00
________________________________

White supremacists adopt section of road
 Guelph Mercury (Ontario, Canada)  - 4/18/2001  - 295 words
  Waterloo Region appears to have been duped by the Canadian Heritage
Alliance, a white supremacist group, in agreeing to post its name on a
sign in the region's adopt-a-road programme, critics say. Mistakes
happen but let's clear them up, said Matthew Lauder, a Waterloo
resident who is director of...

  View now for $3.00       	

  11 - 20 of 59

 Just the facts
 Calgary Herald (Alberta, Canada)  - 3/26/2004  - 180 words
  Re: "White supremacists scrap meeting plans," March 2. Your article
contains several errors and misinformation. First, the meeting in
question did take place March 1 in Edmonton. Second, false labels were
attached to the two named participants because your reporter chose to
speak only to the Anti-Racist Action, a member of...

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________________________________

Group was maligned
 The Record (Kitchener-Waterloo, Ontario)  - 3/7/2001  - 228 words
  I am responding to the personal nature and attack of the misleading
articles published on Feb. 24 and 27 regarding the Canadian Heritage
Alliance. Record reporter Brian Caldwell appeared at my door declaring
he would write an article regardless of my participation. Caldwell
came with an agenda and an axe to...

  View now for $3.00
________________________________

Free speech is chained
 The Record (Kitchener-Waterloo, Ontario)  - 5/1/2001  - 174 words
  It's interesting that the April 19 editorial, Chain Fence Won't
Chain Free Speech, appeared the same day as the Canadian Heritage
Alliance had its Adopt-a-Road signs removed. In Canada today, it seems
violence and civil disobedience is a media darling, while genuine
political thought and analysis is stifled by rumour...

  View now for $3.00
________________________________

LONDON NO PLACE FOR RACISM
 London Free Press (Ontario, Canada)  - 11/10/2002  - 202 words
  In the article, City cops warn of racist upsurge (Oct. 31), Melissa
Guille of the Heritage Alliance was quoted as saying "We are not
criminals. What would violence gain?" and "Because I promote European
heritage, I am considered a racist?" My reply to her is, yes. No
matter how you...

  View now for $3.00

________________________________

'Offensive' adopt-a-road sign removed by regional workers
 The Record (Kitchener-Waterloo, Ontario)  - 4/19/2001  - 483 words
  The Region of Waterloo moved quickly yesterday morning to correct an
embarrassing mistake. By 11 a.m., five regional workers, including a
road supervisor, were removing a sign with the region's adopt-a-road
program from Dickie Settlement Road. The sign was sponsored by the
local white supremacist group, the Canadian Heritage Alliance....

On 4/15/07, Guy Chapman aka JzG < guy.chapman at spamcop.net> wrote:
> On Sun, 15 Apr 2007 14:06:45 -0400, Jeff Raymond
> <jeff.raymond at internationalhouseofbacon.com > wrote:
>
> >I think we're leaning too far toward the "shoot first" mentality,
> >honestly, and when it results in a complete deletion, that's a problem.
> >  Remove possibly libellious commentary?  Okay.  Make no effort on
> >sourcing while doing it?  Not as comfortable.  Delete the article
> >entirely instead of stubbing it?  Certainly not okay in my mind.
>
> In this case the stub was a single sentence which included a false
> claim.  So that didn't work.  And that was done by a very good editor,
> too, so it's not his fault, the problem is that the source for the
> claim, which is not a good one, is flatly contradicted by the subject.
> In a conflict between a poor source and a flat denial by the subject,
> the subject wins.
>
> Guy (JzG)
> --
> http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:JzG
>
>
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