[WikiEN-l] I despair

Mon Apr 16 02:54:37 UTC 2007

> In this case the stub was a single sentence which included a false
> claim.  So that didn't work.

This is untrue Guy. The claim in that single sentence was that Guille is
leader of the Canadian Heritage Alliance and a Lexis-Nexis search returns a
number of reliable sources that say exactly that. Moreover, it also returns
several references, in headlines no less, to  her being a "white
supremacist". I don't see how your deletion and SALTING of the article is
justifiable and if you'd done a simple search you would have known not to do
it.

At the Deletion Review debate at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review/Log/2007_April_14#Melissa_Guille
you seem to be more upset at being challenged than anything else and are
rallying for people to support you. That's perfectly human and I don't want
to chastize you for it, but it's also incompatible with being a
professional. Rather than taking a sober second look, you've dug in your
heels and asked your friends to support you and a number of them are but
reading the Deletion Review it looks like they're supporting you blindly and
not actually looking at the article or looking at sources. This isn't good
for wikipedia, we should be better able to scrutinize one another's work
without oversensitivity or blindness.

Doing a free Lexis-Nexis a la carte search at
http://alacarte.lexisnexis.com<http://alacarte.lexisnexis.com/partners/int/lexisnews/srchNW.asp?mtid=1&srchmode=2>
/partners/int/lexisnews/srchNW<http://alacarte.lexisnexis.com/partners/int/lexisnews/srchNW.asp?mtid=1&srchmode=2>
.<http://alacarte.lexisnexis.com/partners/int/lexisnews/srchNW.asp?mtid=1&srchmode=2>
asp?mtid=1&srchmode=2<http://alacarte.lexisnexis.com/partners/int/lexisnews/srchNW.asp?mtid=1&srchmode=2>for
"Melissa Guille" for all available dates of non-US and wire sources
this
is what I find and, I'm sorry Guy, but it looks like there's more than
enough to justify the claims that you describe as "defamation". Frankly, it
looks like  you've been had.

WH0 ARE THEY?; FREE PRESS REPORTER RANDY RICHMOND PROFILES THE MOST
PROMINENT WHITE SUPREMACISTS IN LONDON. THEIR BACKGROUNDS RANGE FROM
UNIVERSITY HISTORY GRADUATE TO DIGITAL DESIGNER TO FORMER BRINKS DRIVER.
*London Free Press (Ontario)* - 3/28/2005 - 406 words
 Melissa Guille The white supremacist movement attracts far fewer women than
men. That makes Londoner Melissa Guille unusual enough. Even more
surprising, she leads a white supremacist group with a high profile in
Canada. That has made Guille, a single mother of one teenage boy, the white
supremacist movement's...
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  ------------------------------
  Pride leader faces charges; Melissa Guille, one of few female white
supremacy organizers, is facing human rights charges.
*London Free Press (Ontario)* - 11/20/2006 - 448 words
 One of the few female organizers in Canada's white pride movement, and a
potential national leader, is to appear today on charges she violated
Canada's Human Rights Act. Melissa Guille and her Southwestern Ontario-based
Canadian Heritage Alliance have been brought before a Canadian human rights
tribunal in Toronto on...
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  ------------------------------
  RIGHTS COMMISSION TO QUIZ LONDONER; THE COMPLAINT AGAINST MELISSA GUILLE
ALLEGES THAT HER WEBSITE INCITES ETHNIC HATRED.
*London Free Press (Ontario)* - 12/18/2005 - 505 words
 Another leader of London's white supremacy movement faces a grilling at a
Canadian human rights tribunal hearing. A complaint against Melissa
Guille,head of the Canadian Heritage Alliance, has been investigated
by the
Canadian Human Rights Commission and referred to a tribunal hearing, Ottawa
lawyer Richard Warman said yesterday....
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  ------------------------------
  CITY COPS WARN OF RACIST UPSURGE; POLICE LINK THREE WHITE SUPREMACIST
GROUPS IN LONDON WITH INCREASED DANGER OFVIOLENCE.
*London Free Press (Ontario, Canada)* - 10/31/2002 - 674 words
 Three white supremacy groups have set up operations in London, police and
activists warn, sparking fears of violence and racist activities in the
city. Already one assault on a non-white male has been linked by police to
members of what they believe are hate groups. But a leader of...
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  ------------------------------
  'Not promoting hate'; Leader of white supremacy group says it doesn't have
a racist agenda
*The Record (Kitchener-Waterloo, Ontario)* - 2/27/2001 - 598 words
 One of the leaders of a new Kitchener-Waterloo group denied yesterday that
it has a racist agenda. B'nai Brith Canada and Waterloo regional police have
both identified the Canadian Heritage Alliance as a white supremacy
organization with ties to established hate groups. But in an interview
through the doorway...
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  ------------------------------
  Group leader denies racist agenda
*The Cambridge Reporter* - 2/27/2001 - 429 words
 One of the leaders of a new Kitchener-Waterloo group denied yesterday that
it has a racist agenda. B'nai Brith Canada and Waterloo regional police have
both identified the Canadian Heritage Alliance as a white supremacy
organization with ties to established hate groups. But in an interview
through the doorway...
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  ------------------------------
  Kitchener: White supremacist group adopts local road; 'We should not give
this space and publicity to this group,' says head of anti-racism program
*The Cambridge Reporter* - 4/18/2001 - 631 words
 Critics claim Waterloo Region appears to have been unwittingly duped by a
white supremacist group in agreeing to post its name on a sign in the
region's "adopt-a-road" program. "Mistakes happen but let's clear them up,"
said Matthew Lauder, a Waterloo resident who is director of the anti-racism
program...
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  ------------------------------
  Year 12 MERITS
*The Advertiser* - 12/31/1999 - 5422 words
 The Senior Secondary Assessment Board of South Australia awards merit
certificates to Year 12 students who have attained a subject achievement
socre of 20 out of 20 in any subject. The following 993 names are the names
of merit certificate winners for 1999, as supplied by SSABSA. A total of 996
students received merits, but...
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  ------------------------------
  WHY ARE THEY HERE?; LONDON POLICE AND CIVIC OFFICIALS TEND TO PLAY DOWN
THE PRESENCE OF ORGANIZED HATE. BUT ANTI-HATE GROUPS SAY THERE'S A SERIOUS
PROBLEM. INDISPUTABLE IS THE FACT THAT LONDON IS HOME TO AT LEAST TWO WHITE
SUPREMACIST GROUPS AND THEIR LEADERS.
*London Free Press (Ontario)* - 3/26/2005 - 1461 words
 The word hate comes easily to Londoner Tomasz Winnicki. "We do hate . . .
the negroes and other mud races who flood into our clean, white
civilizations and then wreck them," he e-mails in response to a request for
an interview. "We hate the Jew: the media Jew, the banking Jew,...
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  ------------------------------
  WHO ARE THEY?; OTHERS
*London Free Press (Ontario)* - 3/28/2005 - 230 words
 Other notable white supremacists in the London area include: TYLER
CHILCOTT: Longtime member of the Northern Alliance, who complained his
rights were violated when London police wrote a letter to the group
requesting attendance at a meeting at the police station. He was involved in
a fracas between white...
LONDONER, GROUP FACE RIGHTS COMPLAINT
*London Free Press (Ontario, Canada)* - 10/25/2004 - 428 words
 Another high-profile member of London's white supremacist network, and a
city white supremacist group, are facing a complaint filed with the Canadian
Human Rights Commission. Melissa Guille and the Canadian Heritage Alliance
are the subject of a complaint filed by Ottawa lawyer Richard Warman.
Guilleis well-known in supremacist...
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  ------------------------------
  Ontario group denies police allegations it has racist agenda
*Guelph Mercury (Ontario, Canada)* - 2/27/2001 - 209 words
 One of the leaders of the Canadian Heritage Alliance denies the new group
has a racist agenda. B'nai Brith Canada and Waterloo Region police have both
identified the Canadian Heritage Alliance as a white supremacy organization
with ties to established hate groups. "We are a nationalist group, not a...
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  ------------------------------
  No racist agenda, organization insists
*North Bay Nugget (Ontario)* - 2/27/2001 - 235 words
 WATERLOO (CP) One of the leaders of the Canadian Heritage Alliance denies
the new group has a racist agenda. B'nai Brith Canada and Waterloo Region
police have both identified the Canadian Heritage Alliance as a white
supremacy organization with ties to established hate groups. ``We are a
nationalist group,...
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  ------------------------------
  No racist agenda, organization insists
*North Bay Nugget (Ontario)* - 2/27/2001 - 235 words
 WATERLOO (CP) One of the leaders of the Canadian Heritage Alliance denies
the new group has a racist agenda. B'nai Brith Canada and Waterloo Region
police have both identified the Canadian Heritage Alliance as a white
supremacy organization with ties to established hate groups. ``We are a
nationalist group,...
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  ------------------------------
  Deaths & Funerals
*Times Colonist (Victoria, British Columbia)* - 1/30/2007 - 1844 words
 GRANT, Harold Beverley Born in Weyburn, Saskatchewan on December 4 1919
Harold passed away on January 28, 2007. Predeceased by his wife Elva (1983)
and son Jim (2002), and survived by his four children Barbara (Henry), Ron
(Brenda), Judy (Ralph), Ken (Carol), sister Phyllis, eight grandchildren,
five great grandchildren, seven step great grandchildren, 2 step
grandchildren...
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  ------------------------------
  Rights groups offended by sign
*The Record (Kitchener-Waterloo, Ontario)* - 4/18/2001 - 745 words
 A white supremacist group appears to have duped Waterloo Region into
posting its name on a sign in the region's "adopt-a-road" program, critics
say. "Mistakes happen, but let's clear them up," said Matthew Lauder, a
Waterloo resident who is director of the anti-racism program at the Guelph
and District...
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  ------------------------------
  WATERLOO SUPREMACIST GROUP HAS ROAD 'ADOPTION' REVOKED
*The Toronto Star* - 4/19/2001 - 403 words
 Sign is plucked from roadside Liz Monteiro TORSTAR NEWS SERVICE KITCHENER -
Waterloo Region moved quickly yesterday morning to correct an embarrassing
mistake. By 11 a.m., five workers, including a road supervisor, were
removing a sign for the region's "adopt-a-road" program from Dickie
Settlement Rd. The sign, bearing the name of...
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  ------------------------------
  SCALDED DOG SENTENCE LABELLED 'SLAP ON THE WRIST'
*The Daily Herald-Tribune (Grande Prairie, Alberta)* - 2/9/2004 - 233 words
 Animal welfare organizations were upset Friday after a judge fined a woman
$200 for seriously scalding her pet dog. ''We're concerned this sends a
message that animal abuse is not to be taken seriously and perhaps that
animals aren't valued as much in society as they should be,'' said
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  ------------------------------
  Kitchener; White supremacist group's sign yanked
*The Cambridge Reporter* - 4/19/2001 - 256 words
 The Region of Waterloo moved quickly yesterday morning to correct an
embarrassing mistake. By 11 a.m., five regional workers, including a road
supervisor, were removing a sign with the region's "adopt-a-road" program
from Dickie Settlement Road. The sign was sponsored by the local white
supremacist group, the Canadian Heritage Alliance....
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  ------------------------------
  White supremacists adopt section of road
*Guelph Mercury (Ontario, Canada)* - 4/18/2001 - 295 words
 Waterloo Region appears to have been duped by the Canadian Heritage
Alliance, a white supremacist group, in agreeing to post its name on a sign
in the region's adopt-a-road programme, critics say. Mistakes happen but
let's clear them up, said Matthew Lauder, a Waterloo resident who is
director of...
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 Just the facts
*Calgary Herald (Alberta, Canada)* - 3/26/2004 - 180 words
 Re: "White supremacists scrap meeting plans," March 2. Your article
contains several errors and misinformation. First, the meeting in question
did take place March 1 in Edmonton. Second, false labels were attached to
the two named participants because your reporter chose to speak only to the
Anti-Racist Action, a member of...
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  ------------------------------
  Group was maligned
*The Record (Kitchener-Waterloo, Ontario)* - 3/7/2001 - 228 words
 I am responding to the personal nature and attack of the misleading
articles published on Feb. 24 and 27 regarding the Canadian Heritage
Alliance. Record reporter Brian Caldwell appeared at my door declaring he
would write an article regardless of my participation. Caldwell came with an
agenda and an axe to...
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  ------------------------------
  Free speech is chained
*The Record (Kitchener-Waterloo, Ontario)* - 5/1/2001 - 174 words
 It's interesting that the April 19 editorial, Chain Fence Won't Chain Free
Speech, appeared the same day as the Canadian Heritage Alliance had its
Adopt-a-Road signs removed. In Canada today, it seems violence and civil
disobedience is a media darling, while genuine political thought and
analysis is stifled by rumour...
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  ------------------------------
  LONDON NO PLACE FOR RACISM
*London Free Press (Ontario, Canada)* - 11/10/2002 - 202 words
 In the article, City cops warn of racist upsurge (Oct. 31), Melissa
Guilleof the Heritage Alliance was quoted as saying "We are not
criminals. What
would violence gain?" and "Because I promote European heritage, I am
considered a racist?" My reply to her is, yes. No matter how you...
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  ------------------------------

 ------------------------------
  'Offensive' adopt-a-road sign removed by regional workers
*The Record (Kitchener-Waterloo, Ontario)* - 4/19/2001 - 483 words
 The Region of Waterloo moved quickly yesterday morning to correct an
embarrassing mistake. By 11 a.m., five regional workers, including a road
supervisor, were removing a sign with the region's adopt-a-road program from
Dickie Settlement Road. The sign was sponsored by the local white
supremacist group, the Canadian Heritage Alliance....
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On 4/15/07, Guy Chapman aka JzG <guy.chapman at spamcop.net> wrote:
> On Sun, 15 Apr 2007 14:06:45 -0400, Jeff Raymond
> <jeff.raymond at internationalhouseofbacon.com> wrote:
>
> >I think we're leaning too far toward the "shoot first" mentality,
> >honestly, and when it results in a complete deletion, that's a problem.
> >  Remove possibly libellious commentary?  Okay.  Make no effort on
> >sourcing while doing it?  Not as comfortable.  Delete the article
> >entirely instead of stubbing it?  Certainly not okay in my mind.
>
> In this case the stub was a single sentence which included a false
> claim.  So that didn't work.  And that was done by a very good editor,
> too, so it's not his fault, the problem is that the source for the
> claim, which is not a good one, is flatly contradicted by the subject.
> In a conflict between a poor source and a flat denial by the subject,
> the subject wins.
>
> Guy (JzG)
> --
> http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:JzG
>
>
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