Re: [Toolserver-l] Survey: Moving to Labs

-- Sumana Harihareswara Engineering Community Manager Wikimedia Foundation On 05/02/2013 11:24 AM, Sumana Harihareswara wrote: > Thank you, more than I can say. > -Sumana > > On 05/02/2013 11:20 AM, Aaron Halfaker wrote: >> Hey folks, >> >> I usually steer clear of these sort of battles, but it looks like it's time >> to state the obvious: *we need to work together better*. >> >> We're wiki people, damn it. We're the people[1] who figured out how to >> build an encyclopedia through (effectively) an anonymous system when those >> with less imagination were skeptical what it could even work at all. Now, >> we're fighting against ourselves about technology to support our wiki work >> and it is only wasting time, energy and social capitol. >> >> DaB, I don't follow toolserver-l as well as I should. What can I do to >> help make sure that the Toolserver cluster is well supplied *at least* until >> labs meets 99.9% of tool developers needs. Do I need to lobby the WMF? >> WMDE? >> >> Ryan, I'm sure it was not out of some sort of malicious intent, but a large >> number of toolserver users and especially DaB are getting a raw deal. At >> some point, someone seems to have suggested that WMF Labs ought to replace >> the Toolserver. This is painful because, while Labs is not yet ready for >> us, the Toolserver is already being phased out. It's not fair to just say, >> "Come on over to Labs and help us." I don't see how jumping ship before >> the next one shows up is a good idea. The majority of us are doing our >> work as volunteers. We can't just manifest extra maintainer hours in order >> to spend developer time on Labs. We're already spending more time dealing >> with Toolserver issues than we normally would. >> >> Finally, the Toolserver isn't just a resource. It's our community. A >> community is far more valuable than technology. If we don't preserve our >> community, we'll all lose. So please, when we're fighting each other, our >> first thought should be how to not need to fight anymore. >> >> So here we are. Today was wasted arguing about who was wronged. How do we >> work together better tomorrow? >> >> -Aaron >> >> >> On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 9:05 AM, DaB. WP@daniel.baur4.info wrote: >> >>> Hello, >>> At Thursday 02 May 2013 15:29:07 DaB. wrote: >>>> I'm confused. I thought we were all here to support the readers, editors, >>>> researchers and developers of the Wikimedia projects? If the toolserver >>> is >>>> empty because Labs is accomplishing the goal, isn't that a good thing? >>>> >>>> I've asked this before: why not help with Labs, rather than fighting >>>> everyone? Let's work as a team >>> >>> do not forget who started the fighting: The WMF. The WMF announced to WMDE >>> that >>> the database-replication is going to end in the near future, what caused >>> that >>> WMDE stopped to support the Toolserver properly. The very goal with this >>> was >>> to let (Tool-)Labs be the only alternative. >>> A fair approach would have been to create Labs as an alternative to the >>> Toolserver, letting the users (new and old) decide which system they want >>> to >>> use. Toolserver and Labs could have existed in coexistence, exchanging >>> knowledge, and maybe specially in different fields after a while. But that >>> was >>> not what happened. Instead the WMF decided because the are bigger, have >>> more >>> money, servers and personal, and control the replication-data, that they >>> just >>> could put the toolserver to an end – what didn't work as well as expected. >>> And >>> now we are sitting here with confused tool-authors, annoyed tool-users and >>> a >>> angry root. >>> I didn't start the fight and I am not interested in teaming-up with a party >>> which was not interested to build a team in the very beginning when it >>> counted. Switching or helping with Labs would signal that I'm fine with all >>> what the WMF did – and I'm not. >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> DaB. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Userpage: [[:w:de:User:DaB.]] — PGP: 0x2d3ee2d42b255885 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Toolserver-l mailing list (Toolserver-l@lists.wikimedia.org) >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/toolserver-l >>> Posting guidelines for this list: >>> https://wiki.toolserver.org/view/Mailing_list_etiquette >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Toolserver-l mailing list (Toolserver-l@lists.wikimedia.org) >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/toolserver-l >> Posting guidelines for this list: https://wiki.toolserver.org/view/Mailing_list_etiquette >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Toolserver-l mailing list (Toolserver-l@lists.wikimedia.org) > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/toolserver-l > Posting guidelines for this list: https://wiki.toolserver.org/view/Mailing_list_etiquette >