[Foundation-l] Boycott in ace at wiki

[Gerard Meijssen]

Hoi,
I reacted in my previous mail to David Gerard.

To me it is not obvious nor categorical that board-set policies will
necessarily be welcomed or accepted. I assume that new policies will be
formulated that will not have the power of tradition behind them. Given that
our community is rather traditionalist nowadays I expect an outcry whatever
such a policy consists off.
Thanks,
      GerardM


On 16 July 2010 17:24, Oliver Keyes <scire.facias at gmail.com> wrote:

> No, you seem to be misunderstanding. Let me make a clear that me
> questioning
> you on your beliefs and opinions in a respectful and neutral manner is not
> in any sense a personal attack. Also note that I specifically said I agree,
> we need to have conversations. I am not using any NPOV violations for "knee
> jerk reactions [and] refusing to converse about such issues". What I was
> pointing out is that to undermine the "action should be undertaken"
> argument, you used the example of en-wiki violating board-set policies,
> implying that en-wiki would somehow be exempt from any attempt to force it
> on the issue. That is categorically and obviously wrong.
>
> On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 4:18 PM, Gerard Meijssen
> <gerard.meijssen at gmail.com>wrote:
>
> > Hoi,
> > First of all, the problem is with this template being on the main page.
> > There is room for people to be of the opinion that insults to Muslims or
> > Islam is not acceptable. I agree with them on this however I do not agree
> > with them what they protest against. If they make their opinions known on
> > their profile pages, I do not consider that there is a problem.
> >
> > It is also neither their call nor your call if the Acehenese Wikipedia is
> > to
> > be closed. When a majority of the ace community are of this opinion they
> > have the options to leave, not to show pictures that depict Mohammed,
> fork
> > the project and continue localise MediaWiki for the Acehnese language.
> They
> > can not force a closure of the ace.wikipedia nor can they prevent people
> > from editing it.
> >
> > As to querying my position with regards to the NPOV, that is first of all
> > beside the point and secondly it can easily be considered a personal
> > attack.
> > I care about the values of our community and I care about this particular
> > policy. Apparent violation of the NPOV is however no excuse for knee jerk
> > reactions. It is no excuse for refusing to converse about such issues.
> Such
> > a refusal is how you make enemies out of people who are the closest we
> have
> > to friends in societies that are foreign to us.
> > Thanks,
> >      GerardM
> >
> > On 16 July 2010 16:48, David Gerard <dgerard at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > On 16 July 2010 14:44, Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > The Acehnese Wikipedia is a young project. They are entitled to their
> > > > mistakes. It is for this reason important that we first talk with
> them
> > > about
> > > > what it is that they do. We should not start talking TO them about
> what
> > > they
> > > > are to do.
> > > > The current talking TO them is not polite and will not lead to
> positive
> > > > results. It is similar as if I were to say to the English language
> > > community
> > > > that they have to change their way because their community consensus
> is
> > > > incompatible with WMF official board sanctioned policies.
> > >
> > >
> > > All of this is quite true. Discuss, don't tell.
> > >
> > > However: so far it hasn't even gotten to "talking to". It's just been
> > > noting that this is a blatant violation of NPOV and is highly
> > > problematic.
> > >
> > > And ultimately, NPOV is non-negotiable if the current contributors to
> > > ace:wp want it to stay a Wikimedia project.
> > >
> > > Do you have a problem with even noting this? Do you dispute this?
> > >
> > >
> > > - d.
> > >
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