[Foundation-l] Boycott in ace at wiki

[Oliver Keyes]

No, you seem to be misunderstanding. Let me make a clear that me questioning
you on your beliefs and opinions in a respectful and neutral manner is not
in any sense a personal attack. Also note that I specifically said I agree,
we need to have conversations. I am not using any NPOV violations for "knee
jerk reactions [and] refusing to converse about such issues". What I was
pointing out is that to undermine the "action should be undertaken"
argument, you used the example of en-wiki violating board-set policies,
implying that en-wiki would somehow be exempt from any attempt to force it
on the issue. That is categorically and obviously wrong.

On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 4:18 PM, Gerard Meijssen
<gerard.meijssen at gmail.com>wrote:

> Hoi,
> First of all, the problem is with this template being on the main page.
> There is room for people to be of the opinion that insults to Muslims or
> Islam is not acceptable. I agree with them on this however I do not agree
> with them what they protest against. If they make their opinions known on
> their profile pages, I do not consider that there is a problem.
>
> It is also neither their call nor your call if the Acehenese Wikipedia is
> to
> be closed. When a majority of the ace community are of this opinion they
> have the options to leave, not to show pictures that depict Mohammed, fork
> the project and continue localise MediaWiki for the Acehnese language. They
> can not force a closure of the ace.wikipedia nor can they prevent people
> from editing it.
>
> As to querying my position with regards to the NPOV, that is first of all
> beside the point and secondly it can easily be considered a personal
> attack.
> I care about the values of our community and I care about this particular
> policy. Apparent violation of the NPOV is however no excuse for knee jerk
> reactions. It is no excuse for refusing to converse about such issues. Such
> a refusal is how you make enemies out of people who are the closest we have
> to friends in societies that are foreign to us.
> Thanks,
>      GerardM
>
> On 16 July 2010 16:48, David Gerard <dgerard at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On 16 July 2010 14:44, Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > > The Acehnese Wikipedia is a young project. They are entitled to their
> > > mistakes. It is for this reason important that we first talk with them
> > about
> > > what it is that they do. We should not start talking TO them about what
> > they
> > > are to do.
> > > The current talking TO them is not polite and will not lead to positive
> > > results. It is similar as if I were to say to the English language
> > community
> > > that they have to change their way because their community consensus is
> > > incompatible with WMF official board sanctioned policies.
> >
> >
> > All of this is quite true. Discuss, don't tell.
> >
> > However: so far it hasn't even gotten to "talking to". It's just been
> > noting that this is a blatant violation of NPOV and is highly
> > problematic.
> >
> > And ultimately, NPOV is non-negotiable if the current contributors to
> > ace:wp want it to stay a Wikimedia project.
> >
> > Do you have a problem with even noting this? Do you dispute this?
> >
> >
> > - d.
> >
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