[Foundation-l] Remembering the People (was Fundraiser update)

[Brian]

Not only that, but what the relationship between the Foundation and the
community would be was  extensively on this list well before the Foundation
become as monolithic as it is today.

On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 6:22 PM, Jesse Plamondon-Willard <
pathoschild at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> Having not read the original thread, I can only comment on this new
> thread. All the rhetoric I see here is from you, with high-minded
> phrases like "people are at the heart" (as if Wikimedia staff were
> non-people), a total lack of concrete points or examples, citing
> "several experts in the field", and melodramatic statements like "the
> total disregard of [the people] by its leaders will [destroy
> Wikipedia]".
>
> If you have complaints, please be specific about what you think is
> wrong and what concrete actions can remedy it.
>
> --
> Yours cordially,
> Jesse Plamondon-Willard (Pathoschild)
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 7:28 PM, Marc Riddell <michaeldavid86 at comcast.net>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Marc Riddell writes:
> >>
> >>> The Foundation - and those who represent it - seem to have forgotten
> >>> that
> >>> people are at the heart of what they are there to do. And, without the
> >>> heart, it cannot live.
> >
> > on 1/8/09 4:22 PM, Mike Godwin at mgodwin at wikimedia.org wrote:
> >>
> >> This is really an insupportable assertion.
> >
> > (I changed the name of this thread so that those who wish to keep their
> head
> > in the sand may do so by avoiding it.)
> >
> > My message is supported by the countless number of patronizing,
> > condescending missives handed down by your group. In them the people come
> > across as an after-thought. A linguistic analysis by several experts in
> the
> > field concluded that you don't have a clue about effective group
> management.
> >
> >> The Foundation and those
> >> who represent it are, if anything, hyperaware of the community on
> >> whose volunteer efforts we depend. That awareness factors into
> >> practically every decision we make.  Anyone who tells you otherwise is
> >> speaking out of ignorance.
> >>
> >> To name only one example:  Every time we discuss Flagged Revisions at
> >> the Foundation, someone will express concern about how it might affect
> >> community participation if current edits of a sighted version are not
> >> visible (for some period of time, at least) to those who consult
> >> Wikipedia without logging in. Sometimes the person expressing concern
> >> is me -- I know from my own long-term experience in online communities
> >> that keeping people motivated to contribute is central to a
> >> community's success.
> >>
> >> The idea that anyone at the Foundation ever forgets about the
> >> dependence of the projects on the larger community of editors is just
> >> nonsense, born out of the impulse, so common in online forums, to
> >> Assume Bad Faith.
> >
> > This is pure unsubstantiated rhetoric. There are real-life, real-time
> > problems - serious problems - that directly involve the people occurring
> in
> > the English Wikipedia for example. Where is your help?
> >>
> > <snip> My message is not about Eric.
> >
> > The culture of product first - people second was established from the
> very
> > creation of the Wikipedia Project. And it remains pretty much intact to
> this
> > day.
> >
> > Wales, in his past statement, was wrong. Humans will not destroy
> Wikipedia;
> > but rather the total disregard of them by its leaders will.
> >>
> >> Try assuming good faith.
> >
> > I have all the faith I need: in the people.
> >
> > Marc Riddell
>
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