[Foundation-l] Remembering the People (was Fundraiser update)
pathoschild at gmail.com
Fri Jan 9 01:22:45 UTC 2009
Having not read the original thread, I can only comment on this new
thread. All the rhetoric I see here is from you, with high-minded
phrases like "people are at the heart" (as if Wikimedia staff were
non-people), a total lack of concrete points or examples, citing
"several experts in the field", and melodramatic statements like "the
total disregard of [the people] by its leaders will [destroy
If you have complaints, please be specific about what you think is
wrong and what concrete actions can remedy it.
Jesse Plamondon-Willard (Pathoschild)
On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 7:28 PM, Marc Riddell <michaeldavid86 at comcast.net> wrote:
>> Marc Riddell writes:
>>> The Foundation - and those who represent it - seem to have forgotten
>>> people are at the heart of what they are there to do. And, without the
>>> heart, it cannot live.
> on 1/8/09 4:22 PM, Mike Godwin at mgodwin at wikimedia.org wrote:
>> This is really an insupportable assertion.
> (I changed the name of this thread so that those who wish to keep their head
> in the sand may do so by avoiding it.)
> My message is supported by the countless number of patronizing,
> condescending missives handed down by your group. In them the people come
> across as an after-thought. A linguistic analysis by several experts in the
> field concluded that you don't have a clue about effective group management.
>> The Foundation and those
>> who represent it are, if anything, hyperaware of the community on
>> whose volunteer efforts we depend. That awareness factors into
>> practically every decision we make. Anyone who tells you otherwise is
>> speaking out of ignorance.
>> To name only one example: Every time we discuss Flagged Revisions at
>> the Foundation, someone will express concern about how it might affect
>> community participation if current edits of a sighted version are not
>> visible (for some period of time, at least) to those who consult
>> Wikipedia without logging in. Sometimes the person expressing concern
>> is me -- I know from my own long-term experience in online communities
>> that keeping people motivated to contribute is central to a
>> community's success.
>> The idea that anyone at the Foundation ever forgets about the
>> dependence of the projects on the larger community of editors is just
>> nonsense, born out of the impulse, so common in online forums, to
>> Assume Bad Faith.
> This is pure unsubstantiated rhetoric. There are real-life, real-time
> problems - serious problems - that directly involve the people occurring in
> the English Wikipedia for example. Where is your help?
> <snip> My message is not about Eric.
> The culture of product first - people second was established from the very
> creation of the Wikipedia Project. And it remains pretty much intact to this
> Wales, in his past statement, was wrong. Humans will not destroy Wikipedia;
> but rather the total disregard of them by its leaders will.
>> Try assuming good faith.
> I have all the faith I need: in the people.
> Marc Riddell
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