[Foundation-l] Remembering the People (was Fundraiser update)
Brian.Mingus at colorado.edu
Fri Jan 9 01:31:45 UTC 2009
* was discussed extensively
On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 6:31 PM, Brian <Brian.Mingus at colorado.edu> wrote:
> Not only that, but what the relationship between the Foundation and the
> community would be was extensively on this list well before the Foundation
> become as monolithic as it is today.
> On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 6:22 PM, Jesse Plamondon-Willard <
> pathoschild at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Having not read the original thread, I can only comment on this new
>> thread. All the rhetoric I see here is from you, with high-minded
>> phrases like "people are at the heart" (as if Wikimedia staff were
>> non-people), a total lack of concrete points or examples, citing
>> "several experts in the field", and melodramatic statements like "the
>> total disregard of [the people] by its leaders will [destroy
>> If you have complaints, please be specific about what you think is
>> wrong and what concrete actions can remedy it.
>> Yours cordially,
>> Jesse Plamondon-Willard (Pathoschild)
>> On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 7:28 PM, Marc Riddell <michaeldavid86 at comcast.net>
>> >> Marc Riddell writes:
>> >>> The Foundation - and those who represent it - seem to have forgotten
>> >>> that
>> >>> people are at the heart of what they are there to do. And, without the
>> >>> heart, it cannot live.
>> > on 1/8/09 4:22 PM, Mike Godwin at mgodwin at wikimedia.org wrote:
>> >> This is really an insupportable assertion.
>> > (I changed the name of this thread so that those who wish to keep their
>> > in the sand may do so by avoiding it.)
>> > My message is supported by the countless number of patronizing,
>> > condescending missives handed down by your group. In them the people
>> > across as an after-thought. A linguistic analysis by several experts in
>> > field concluded that you don't have a clue about effective group
>> >> The Foundation and those
>> >> who represent it are, if anything, hyperaware of the community on
>> >> whose volunteer efforts we depend. That awareness factors into
>> >> practically every decision we make. Anyone who tells you otherwise is
>> >> speaking out of ignorance.
>> >> To name only one example: Every time we discuss Flagged Revisions at
>> >> the Foundation, someone will express concern about how it might affect
>> >> community participation if current edits of a sighted version are not
>> >> visible (for some period of time, at least) to those who consult
>> >> Wikipedia without logging in. Sometimes the person expressing concern
>> >> is me -- I know from my own long-term experience in online communities
>> >> that keeping people motivated to contribute is central to a
>> >> community's success.
>> >> The idea that anyone at the Foundation ever forgets about the
>> >> dependence of the projects on the larger community of editors is just
>> >> nonsense, born out of the impulse, so common in online forums, to
>> >> Assume Bad Faith.
>> > This is pure unsubstantiated rhetoric. There are real-life, real-time
>> > problems - serious problems - that directly involve the people occurring
>> > the English Wikipedia for example. Where is your help?
>> > <snip> My message is not about Eric.
>> > The culture of product first - people second was established from the
>> > creation of the Wikipedia Project. And it remains pretty much intact to
>> > day.
>> > Wales, in his past statement, was wrong. Humans will not destroy
>> > but rather the total disregard of them by its leaders will.
>> >> Try assuming good faith.
>> > I have all the faith I need: in the people.
>> > Marc Riddell
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