[Foundation-l] Stalking Article

[Ray Saintonge]

Gerard Meijssen wrote:
> We are talking about people who on or off list threaten others to kill, maim
> and rape. 
If that's what you mean that's how you define it, and stick to that 
definition.
> We are talking about people associated with aggressive pov pushing
> and using any means whatsoever to establish their pov. 
Some will do that without going quite so far as death and rape threats.  
That may still be unacceptable, but it's a different issue.
> There have been
> several examples given of this behaviour by credible people. Suggesting as
> you do that there is no idea that we are talking about it not where we are at.
>   
I can't do anything about your willful misreading
> When YOU do not know what is being discussed you either read up on it, do
> some research, talk to people involved or keep out of it. 
The issue is a general one about stalking.  I don't need to wade through 
multiple pages of endless drama to understand that.  My objectivity will 
not be helped by a one-sided listening to only those who believe they 
have been stalked.  I will not be intimidated out of the conversation 
just because you don't like what I am saying.
> Suggesting that
> there is no clarity about such issues is exactly the kind of behaviour that
> makes this situation worse because it leads to more procrastination. 
Quite the contrary.  The kind of muddle-headedness that is incapable of 
bringing a problem into clear focus is a lot more to the point.
> What is
> needed is clarity to what extend the WMF is aware of this situation and what
> involvement it can have, research is needed about the extend this type of
> behaviour DOES affect our project and impacts the NPOV of controversial
> subjects. This research is needed because it will prevent people from
> ignoring or belittling this issue.
>   
If you can't say whom you are accusing of belittling the issue, withdraw 
your accusation.

I'm sure that the WMF is well aware of the situation.  Research can be 
an effective tool for procrastination.  What, if anything, the 
Foundation can do about threatened editors is more relevant.  You seem 
to be more concerned with the impact on NPOV than on the personal safety 
of those who have received real threats.

Ec

> On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 9:29 AM, Ray Saintonge wrote
>> Mark Williamson wrote:
>>     
>>> In response to this whole thread, I have two sentiments.
>>>
>>> First of all, stalking is bad.
>>>
>>> Second of all, we need to be clear about what is stalking and what is
>>> not. Making fun of someone is not stalking. Pursuing someone and
>>> repeatedly harassing them is.
>>>       
>> Sure, without a clear idea about what the offence really is we are only
>> dealing with subjective interpretations.
>>
>> Repeated harassment may sometimes be only in the eye of the person who
>> sees himself harassed.
>>
>> We have recently had one person try to get a bot authorised on every
>> project that he could, and viewed anyone who would go around after him
>> to oppose this as harassment.
>>
>> Others will view any campaign to oppose all their AfD's as harassment.
>>
>> Unless we can come to an agreement about what we mean this will get
>> nowhere.
>>
>> Ec
>>