[Foundation-l] Status of cloak requests

[John Reaves]

Catalyzing is bit lame some times, I'll give you that.  But being opped all
of the time and keeping bans for longer than a few days for people without a
history of abuse is just plain stupid and I would assume any IRC network set
up by WMF wouldn't allow it either.

--John Reaves

On Tue, Feb 26, 2008 at 12:50 PM, Dan Rosenthal <swatjester at gmail.com>
wrote:

> "Catalyzing". Ops not being allowed to stay opped all of the time.
> Bans being removed after short periods of time.
>
> -Dan
> On Feb 26, 2008, at 10:21 AM, John Reaves wrote:
>
> > What freenode restrictions are enabling bot attacks?
> >
> > --John Reaves
> >
> > On Tue, Feb 26, 2008 at 6:54 AM, Dan Rosenthal
> > <swatjester at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> The underlying problem with that is they are also able to tell
> >> legitimate complaints no.  It beholdens one of the methods of the
> >> Foundation's communications (official or not) to a 3rd party's
> >> policies, with zero oversight or enforcement from the foundation. And
> >> then, we're presented with problems like relying on a third party to
> >> protect our privacy with cloaks; newcomers that are disgusted and
> >> turned away by coming into our channels and seeing bot attacks that
> >> we
> >> are hamstrung from preventing due to stupid restrictions on ops by
> >> freenode; group contacts that have been criticized as being
> >> unavailable and unhelpful; drama involving logging policies etc.
> >>
> >> We could bypass all of this by simply hosting the IRC server
> >> ourselves.
> >>
> >> -Dan
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Feb 26, 2008, at 9:36 AM, David Gerard wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 26/02/2008, Paul Williams <paul at skenmy.com> wrote:
> >>>> On Tue, Feb 26, 2008 at 2:18 PM, Dan Rosenthal
> >>>> <swatjester at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>> A question that has been raised for some time. Freenode has issues
> >>>>> beyond just the IRC cloaks.  Why aren't we having an
> >>>>> irc.wikimedia.org?  There's really no good reason beyond "that's
> >>>>> just
> >>>>> the way it is."
> >>>
> >>>> I have considerable experience in running IRC servers and networks.
> >>>> They
> >>>> aren't particularly resource intensive - and the customisation
> >>>> facilities
> >>>> are massive if you have backend access.
> >>>> Just give me a shout if you need anything regarding this and i'd be
> >>>> more
> >>>> than willing to help out.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Lots of people around Wikimedia and its projects use IRC very
> >>> effectively as a working tool, but the social project fallout on
> >>> en:wp
> >>> in particular from IRC use and suspicion of it is ... remarkable.
> >>> (See
> >>> the recent arbitration case for an example.)
> >>>
> >>> One important and useful byproduct of the Foundation's hands-off
> >>> approach to Wikimedia IRC on Freenode is being able to tell people
> >>> complaining to the Foundation to go away and ask James or Sean, both
> >>> of whom are highly practiced in telling spurious complainants "no."
> >>>
> >>> I suppose if we had our own server they could get the job there too
> >>> and do it in a similar way ... "Here, James, Sean, have this
> >>> excellent
> >>> chalice. Only a little poison!"
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> - d.
> >>>
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> >>
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