[Advocacy Advisors] Wikipedia Zero and net neutrality

Sun Aug 10 17:49:44 UTC 2014

Dear all,

Sorry for jumping into this very interesting discussion rather late.
Also, I regret not having been able to come to yesterday's net politics
bear. Although I agree with Jens that zero-rated services are
incompatible with net neutrality it seems that this discussion is indeed
over. :-(

This is why I think we should focus on how to communicate those two
positions (pro Wikipedia Zero + pro net neutrality) in the framework of
Brussels advocacy. It seems that Google, Facebook and the like are doing
this quite successfully
(http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2014/07/15/why-google-facebook-the-internet-giants-are-arguing-for-net-neutrality)
and it might even be that many decision makers even won't care too much
about an exception to net neutrality for Wikipedia or other useful
services. After all:

- It does give access to less connected countries/societies to some
parts of the Internet;
- It can increase online participation; and
- It can foster knowledge sharing among the people concerned.

I guess the bottom line could be that net neutrality is no ideology
(=zero-rating is okay), but should protect consumers and content
providers from having to pay ISPs in order to be accessible at all or at
an acceptable speed (=bad for Wikimedia and other content providers).

In terms of advocacy it's a slippery slope and if I could, I would have
advised to EITHER promote Wikipedia Zero OR defend net neutrality.

Any thoughts welcome.

Jan

Am 10.08.2014 um 18:32 schrieb Jens Best:
> The discussion seems to be over:
>
> According to the press Patricio Lorente, member of the Foundation's
> board, said:
>
> "Access to information is a basic human right. If net neutrality is
> hurting a human right, we have to rethink net neutrality."
>
> Haven't heard such a single-sided, unbalanced and self-righteous
> statment for a while.
>
> So, people standing for net neutrality are now became enemies of basic
> human rights in the understanding of the foundation. - Well, if this
> low level of discussion is reached, I guess it doesn't make sense to
> discuss the subject with the foundation at all.
>
> Byebye
>
> Jens
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 2014-08-09 13:09 GMT+02:00 Stevie Benton
> <stevie.benton at wikimedia.org.uk <mailto:stevie.benton at wikimedia.org.uk>>:
>
>     Hello everyone. I don't actually have a solution, although I am
>     thinking about it a lot. But for anyone who is in doubt about the
>     potential difficulties that net neutrality faces because of
>     Wikipedia Zero, I recommend they take a look at this blog. It is
>     written from what I consider the "critical friend" perspective and
>     articulates the arguments of Jens and others very clearly. 
>
>     https://www.accessnow.org/blog/2014/08/08/wikipedia-zero-and-net-neutrality-wikimedia-turns-its-back-on-the-open
>
>     It also reflects my own view pretty well. I hope we can have a
>     calm and reasoned discussion about this issue this evening at the
>     net politics beer.
>
>     Thanks and regards,
>
>     Stevie
>
>
>     On 5 August 2014 07:08, Juergen Fenn
>     <schneeschmelze at googlemail.com
>     <mailto:schneeschmelze at googlemail.com>> wrote:
>
>         2014-08-05 2:54 GMT+02:00 Lila Tretikov <lila at wikimedia.org
>         <mailto:lila at wikimedia.org>>:
>         > We tend to go out pontificating on these lists. What would
>         be helpful is
>         > solutioning. For net neutrality, how would you reconcile the
>         need for free
>         > public access to information with the ideals of net
>         neutrality? This is the
>         > library analogy. We believe libraries should exist in this
>         new digital
>         > world. Do you advise that they cannot? And if they can, how
>         should we
>         > articulate this better?
>         >
>         > Go ahead and take a stab at it.
>
>         The solution probably is to go and partner with the libraries
>         instead
>         of the ISPs. Leave it to the libraries which ISP they choose.
>         It is up
>         to the libraries to provide access to resources for their
>         users. They
>         select the resources they provide and they mind the technical side
>         behind it all. This is not the WMF's business. You only run the WP
>         website and care about the community.
>
>         Regards,
>         Jürgen.
>
>         _______________________________________________
>         Advocacy_Advisors mailing list
>         Advocacy_Advisors at lists.wikimedia.org
>         <mailto:Advocacy_Advisors at lists.wikimedia.org>
>         https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/advocacy_advisors
>
>
>
>
>     -- 
>
>     Stevie Benton
>     Head of External Relations
>     Wikimedia UK
>     +44 (0) 20 7065 0993 <tel:%2B44%20%280%29%2020%207065%200993> / +44 (0) 7803 505 173 <tel:%2B44%20%280%29%207803%20505%20173>
>     @StevieBenton
>
>     Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in
>     England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity
>     No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64
>     Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is
>     the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia
>     projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate
>     Wikipedia, amongst other projects).
>
>     *Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal
>     control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.*
>
>
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     Advocacy_Advisors mailing list
>     Advocacy_Advisors at lists.wikimedia.org
>     <mailto:Advocacy_Advisors at lists.wikimedia.org>
>     https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/advocacy_advisors
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> --
> Jens Best
> Präsidium
> Wikimedia Deutschland e.V.
> web: http://www.wikimedia.de <http://www.wikimedia.de/>
> mail: jens.best <http://goog_17221883>@wikimedia.de <http://@wikimedia.de>
>
> Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V. 
> Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts
> Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig
> anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin,
> Steuernummer 27/681/51985.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Advocacy_Advisors mailing list
> Advocacy_Advisors at lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/advocacy_advisors

-- 
Please use e-mail encryption. Find out how
<https://pressfreedomfoundation.org/encryption-works#pgp> and download
my Public Key <https://db.tt/nSNHpAP3>.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/advocacy_advisors/attachments/20140810/c6f95ee8/attachment-0001.html>