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Dear all,<br>
<br>
Sorry for jumping into this very interesting discussion rather late.
Also, I regret not having been able to come to yesterday's net
politics bear. Although I agree with Jens that zero-rated services
are incompatible with net neutrality it seems that this discussion
is indeed over. :-(<br>
<br>
This is why I think we should focus on how to communicate those two
positions (pro Wikipedia Zero + pro net neutrality) in the framework
of Brussels advocacy. It seems that Google, Facebook and the like
are doing this quite successfully
(<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2014/07/15/why-google-facebook-the-internet-giants-are-arguing-for-net-neutrality">http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2014/07/15/why-google-facebook-the-internet-giants-are-arguing-for-net-neutrality</a>)
and it might even be that many decision makers even won't care too
much about an exception to net neutrality for Wikipedia or other
useful services. After all:<br>
<br>
- It does give access to less connected countries/societies to some
parts of the Internet;<br>
- It can increase online participation; and<br>
- It can foster knowledge sharing among the people concerned. <br>
<br>
I guess the bottom line could be that net neutrality is no ideology
(=zero-rating is okay), but should protect consumers and content
providers from having to pay ISPs in order to be accessible at all
or at an acceptable speed (=bad for Wikimedia and other content
providers).<br>
<br>
In terms of advocacy it's a slippery slope and if I could, I would
have advised to EITHER promote Wikipedia Zero OR defend net
neutrality. <br>
<br>
Any thoughts welcome.<br>
<br>
Jan<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 10.08.2014 um 18:32 schrieb Jens
Best:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAAzKXrGkYMQZQwbn-S1-fjP1odPCAHDxV36e1SpENsb2p52CUA@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">The discussion seems to be over:<br>
<div><br>
According to the press Patricio Lorente, member of the
Foundation's board, said: <br>
<br>
"Access to information is a basic human right. If net
neutrality is hurting a human right, we have to rethink net
neutrality."<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>Haven't heard such a single-sided, unbalanced and
self-righteous statment for a while. <br>
</div>
<div><br>
So, people standing for net neutrality are now became enemies
of basic human rights in the understanding of the foundation.
- Well, if this low level of discussion is reached, I guess it
doesn't make sense to discuss the subject with the foundation
at all. <br>
<br>
</div>
<div>Byebye<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>Jens<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">2014-08-09 13:09 GMT+02:00 Stevie
Benton <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:stevie.benton@wikimedia.org.uk"
target="_blank">stevie.benton@wikimedia.org.uk</a>></span>:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Hello everyone. I don't actually have a
solution, although I am thinking about it a lot. But for
anyone who is in doubt about the potential difficulties
that net neutrality faces because of Wikipedia Zero, I
recommend they take a look at this blog. It is written
from what I consider the "critical friend" perspective and
articulates the arguments of Jens and others very
clearly.
<div>
<br>
</div>
<div><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.accessnow.org/blog/2014/08/08/wikipedia-zero-and-net-neutrality-wikimedia-turns-its-back-on-the-open"
target="_blank">https://www.accessnow.org/blog/2014/08/08/wikipedia-zero-and-net-neutrality-wikimedia-turns-its-back-on-the-open</a><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>It also reflects my own view pretty well. I hope we
can have a calm and reasoned discussion about this issue
this evening at the net politics beer.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks and regards,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Stevie</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div>
<div class="h5"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 5 August 2014 07:08,
Juergen Fenn <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:schneeschmelze@googlemail.com"
target="_blank">schneeschmelze@googlemail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">2014-08-05
2:54 GMT+02:00 Lila Tretikov <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:lila@wikimedia.org" target="_blank">lila@wikimedia.org</a>>:<br>
<div>> We tend to go out pontificating on these
lists. What would be helpful is<br>
> solutioning. For net neutrality, how would
you reconcile the need for free<br>
> public access to information with the
ideals of net neutrality? This is the<br>
> library analogy. We believe libraries
should exist in this new digital<br>
> world. Do you advise that they cannot? And
if they can, how should we<br>
> articulate this better?<br>
><br>
> Go ahead and take a stab at it.<br>
<br>
</div>
The solution probably is to go and partner with
the libraries instead<br>
of the ISPs. Leave it to the libraries which ISP
they choose. It is up<br>
to the libraries to provide access to resources
for their users. They<br>
select the resources they provide and they mind
the technical side<br>
behind it all. This is not the WMF's business. You
only run the WP<br>
website and care about the community.<br>
<div>
<div><br>
Regards,<br>
Jürgen.<br>
<br>
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<div dir="ltr">
<pre cols="72">Stevie Benton
Head of External Relations
Wikimedia UK
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%2B44%20%280%29%2020%207065%200993" value="+442070650993" target="_blank">+44 (0) 20 7065 0993</a> / <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%2B44%20%280%29%207803%20505%20173" value="+447803505173" target="_blank">+44 (0) 7803 505 173</a>
@StevieBenton</pre>
<pre cols="72"><div style="color:rgb(80,0,80);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;white-space:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><p style="line-height:19.200000762939453px;font-family:sans-serif;margin:0.4em 0px 0.5em">
<font size="1">Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).</font></p>
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