A few years ago, I had asked that IRC have a searchable archive of discussions. I was told that there were daily logs and I could get one if I asked. I asked, and was denied. Until IRC commits itself to openness, it should have little to no impact on any facet of our project. Without searchable archives, IRC is not open in the modern sense, regardless of who or how you can join it, or view it. The archives of this mailing list are searchable.
Will Johnson
In a message dated 7/30/2009 8:21:43 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, sean@silentflame.com writes:
Greetings,
The IRC Group Contacts decided last year to hold a surgery every three months where general IRC matters could be brought up for discussion in an environment in which IRC people able to put those into action (which includes all the contacts themselves) were present and involved. Regrettably it took just over a year for the second meeting to be organised, but this pattern will not be repeated!
Therefore we invite you to visit http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC/Group_Contacts/Meetings/August_2009 and sign up for the meeting if you are someone interested in how IRC runs and especially if you are responsible for one or more channels. That page will shortly contain procedural information on how we intend to structure the meeting to get the most out of it. For convenience, I shall note that the meeting is at 1900Z on 3rd August 2009 in #wikimedia-irc-meetings on freenode.
Yours,
Sean Whitton (seanw on IRC) For the IRC Group Contacts
I have posted this message to the main public mailing lists to which I subscribe and would appreciate circulation of the meeting's existence to as many other languages/projects as possible as this is open to all - but please note that the meeting will be held in English.
Hi,
On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 19:32, WJhonson@aol.com wrote:
A few years ago, I had asked that IRC have a searchable archive of discussions. I was told that there were daily logs and I could get one if I asked. I asked, and was denied. Until IRC commits itself to openness, it should have little to no impact on any facet of our project. Without searchable archives, IRC is not open in the modern sense, regardless of who or how you can join it, or view it. The archives of this mailing list are searchable.
On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 11:46, wjhonson@aol.com wrote:
Why couldn't the logs be released to the public ?
Wikimedia's IRC channels have a (very) long-standing no public logging policy with the argument that IRC is not on-wiki and the extra freedom of no logs encourages people to float ideas that they might not otherwise dare to suggest. There are other arguments too.
There are plenty of us that disagree with this policy despite being in the front line in enforcing it, including myself. To me, it's foolish because it's totally unenforceable. The people we don't want to post logs - i.e. the trolls - still do so on their various websites, meaning that little is achieved with the policy other than giving ops a good reason to ban troublesome users. There was however little consensus to change the policy when discussions were held maybe a year ago, so nothing was altered, and we continue to enforce the policy as best we can.
S
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WJhonson@aol.com wrote:
A few years ago, I had asked that IRC have a searchable archive of discussions. I was told that there were daily logs and I could get one if I asked. I asked, and was denied. Until IRC commits itself to openness, it should have little to no impact on any facet of our project. Without searchable archives, IRC is not open in the modern sense, regardless of who or how you can join it, or view it. The archives of this mailing list are searchable.
Will Johnson
Perhaps you should get involved. Come to the meeting, and maybe we can discuss this issue.
There are arguments for and against publicly logging channels, and I'd love to hear your input on this issue. We have considered the question in the past, but to my knowledge there was no agreement on any change. If you want that to change, you'll have to convince people.
For what it's worth, I think publicly logging in public channels is a good idea. You're not alone in your views, so let's see if we can hammer something out.
Thanks, - -Mike
Are there no channels with public logs? For a while some had them and some did not.
SJ
On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 7:36 PM, Mike.lifeguardmike.lifeguard@gmail.com wrote:
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WJhonson@aol.com wrote:
A few years ago, I had asked that IRC have a searchable archive of discussions. I was told that there were daily logs and I could get one if I asked. I asked, and was denied. Until IRC commits itself to openness, it should have little to no impact on any facet of our project. Without searchable archives, IRC is not open in the modern sense, regardless of who or how you can join it, or view it. The archives of this mailing list are searchable.
Will Johnson
Perhaps you should get involved. Come to the meeting, and maybe we can discuss this issue.
There are arguments for and against publicly logging channels, and I'd love to hear your input on this issue. We have considered the question in the past, but to my knowledge there was no agreement on any change. If you want that to change, you'll have to convince people.
For what it's worth, I think publicly logging in public channels is a good idea. You're not alone in your views, so let's see if we can hammer something out.
Thanks,
- -Mike
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Samuel Klein wrote:
Are there no channels with public logs? For a while some had them and some did not.
AFAIK (but since I don't keep track, I could be very wrong), there's no channels that keep public logs in general. Some have the occasional / regular pre-planned public meetings where it is noted that public logs is kept for the meeting (but not in general). An example is Wikimedia UK board meeting that takes place on #wikimedia-uk-board, with public logs of both #wikimedia-uk-board and #wikimedia-uk (where public comments takes place) taken during the meeting.
KTC
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Kwan Ting Chan wrote:
Samuel Klein wrote:
Are there no channels with public logs? For a while some had them and some did not.
AFAIK (but since I don't keep track, I could be very wrong), there's no channels that keep public logs in general.
KTC
That's not true. #mediawiki for example is always publicly logged. Same for #wikimedia-toolserver.
- -Mike
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