I definitely mentioned the WikiJournal of Humanities when I was at the Leadership Bootcamp last weekend-people were interested! It also may take some time before a professor can use the journal on their tenure application. One of the other participants at the conference mentioned that since predatory journals are becoming more popular, tenure committees are more wary of new journals. Getting ISSN/DOI are good steps to improving our images a legitimate.
-Rachel
From: WikiJournal-en wikijournal-en-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org On Behalf Of Andrew Leung Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2018 5:53 AM To: pld@chem.ucla.edu; Thomas Shafee thomas.shafee@gmail.com Cc: WJH board wjhboard@googlegroups.com; Roger Watson R.Watson@hull.ac.uk; WJS board wjsboard@googlegroups.com; WikiJournal participants wikijournal-en@lists.wikimedia.org; wjmboard wjmboard@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [WikiJournal-en] WikiJournal as a reference in Wikipedia
In light of that recent discussion, I think we should ramp up the promotional messages like blogpost, Twitter, mailing list announcement and maybe even a Wikipedia Signpost interview to make the wider community be aware of our existence.
Andrew
Sent from my smartphone. Apologies for any typos.
-------- Original message -------- From: Paula Diaconescu <pld@chem.ucla.edumailto:pld@chem.ucla.edu> Date: 2018-06-18 9:58 PM (GMT-05:00) To: Thomas Shafee <thomas.shafee@gmail.commailto:thomas.shafee@gmail.com> Cc: Roger Watson <R.Watson@hull.ac.ukmailto:R.Watson@hull.ac.uk>, Andrew Leung <andrewcleung@hotmail.commailto:andrewcleung@hotmail.com>, WikiJournal participants <wikijournal-en@lists.wikimedia.orgmailto:wikijournal-en@lists.wikimedia.org>, Mikael Häggström <editor.in.chief@wikijmed.orgmailto:editor.in.chief@wikijmed.org>, wjmboard <wjmboard@googlegroups.commailto:wjmboard@googlegroups.com>, WJH board <wjhboard@googlegroups.commailto:wjhboard@googlegroups.com>, WJS board <wjsboard@googlegroups.commailto:wjsboard@googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: [WikiJournal-en] WikiJournal as a reference in Wikipedia
Hi everybody,
I understand that WikiJournal is broad, but, in my experience, what increases the reputation of a journal is a rigorous peer review system. The process does have a bit of catch-22 built in it because good reviewers don't want to take on articles from new journals, but that's where the editors need to step in and persuade reputable reviewers to take on the task. I personally am not a big fan of open identity reviewers. I think that, although one shouldn't take the scientific process personally, it is still difficult to accept criticism and it is a lot easier to make enemies if the criticisms are strong. Very few authors/reviewers are capable to not take it personally and those that unmask their identity tend not to have too many criticisms (a fact that, in itself, could question the quality of the review).
I agree that once WikiJournals are audited and certified by COPEhttps://publicationethics.org/membership, AOSPAhttps://oaspa.org/membership/membership-criteria/, Scopus, Pubmed, and Web of Science things will improve.
Paula
On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 4:20 PM, Thomas Shafee <thomas.shafee@gmail.commailto:thomas.shafee@gmail.com> wrote: Good points. My position on this:
To clarify, WikiJournal material can still be integrated into Wikipedia as previously, the only thing is that it shouldn't currently be used as the sole support for a statement (particularly for articles going through internal good article or featured article review). Wikipedia can often have strict standards on what is a sufficiently reliable source, so I suspect that almost any journal with only 1 issue published would face the same scepticism at Wikipedia Reliable sources Noticeboardhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard#Reliability_of_WikiJournal_of_Science.
If the position is that WikiJournals don't have enough reputation yet, then that doesn't change our plans particularly to continue building a reputation. I've had a similar response when approaching some authors of "I think I'll wait until the reputation is built". Many academics (especially in person, as opposed to by email) have been enthusiastic, so it's a case of proving ourselves over the coming years.
If the position is that WikiJournals fundamentally can never have a good enough reputation then I think that's based on flawed assumptions (like we don't check reviewer identities) and can be countered. It will also be countered as WikiJournals are audited and certified by COPEhttps://publicationethics.org/membership, AOSPAhttps://oaspa.org/membership/membership-criteria/, Scopus, Pubmed, and Web of Science.
WikiJMed is currently being considered by COPE, so I propose that WikiJSci similarly apply once we have feedback from WikiJMed's experience. We can also encourage more peer reviewers to have their identities open. Our current reviewer confirmation email templatehttps://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/WikiJournal_of_Science/Editorial_guidelines/Message_templates#Confirming_a_reviewer uses the phrase: "Both anonymous and non-anonymous reviews are permitted (approx 60% of our reviewers choose to have their identity open)..." We could word to make more positive, and stating a preference for open identities like: "We believe that having reviewer identities open builds trust in the review process, however you may remain anonymous upon request"
Overall, I think that it's a useful litmus test of some Wikipedian views, but the already-intended reputation building plans should address them. Thomas
On Tue, 19 Jun 2018 at 05:32 Roger Watson <R.Watson@hull.ac.ukmailto:R.Watson@hull.ac.uk> wrote: My only contribution to this - apart from astonishment at Wikipedia not considering a peer reviewed journal within its own stable as a reliable source - is that in trying to create and edit Wikipedia pages and watching mine develop as others try to add to it, is a great deal of inconsistency across pages. I note for example one colleagues page has his books listed; someone did the same for mine and this was deleted in the basis of being a 'shopping list' and replaced by a very unhelpful list of my three most cited papers. I see same editor did this to another page that I happen to be working on. On the other hand I look at the page belonging to my cousin - a Dame - and it seems if your really elevated that anything goes in terms of what can be listed. Roger Sent from my iPhone Twitter: @rwatson1955 Skype: roger.watson3 Mobile: +447808480547tel:+44%207808%20480547
On 18 Jun 2018, at 17:53, Andrew Leung <andrewcleung@hotmail.commailto:andrewcleung@hotmail.com> wrote: Or use the ultimate trump card: IAR (ignore all rules if it prevents you from improving Wikipedia)
Andrew
Sent from my smartphone. Apologies for any typos.
-------- Original message -------- From: Ian Alexander <iany@scenarioplus.org.ukmailto:iany@scenarioplus.org.uk> Date: 2018-06-18 12:50 PM (GMT-05:00) To: Mikael Häggström <<editor.in.chief@wikijmed.orgmailto:editor.in.chief@wikijmed.org> Cc: "WikiJournal (currently at Wikiversity)" <wikijournal-en@lists.wikimedia.orgmailto:wikijournal-en@lists.wikimedia.org>, wjmboard <wjmboard@googlegroups.commailto:wjmboard@googlegroups.com>, WJH board <wjhboard@googlegroups.commailto:wjhboard@googlegroups.com>, WJS board <wjsboard@googlegroups.commailto:wjsboard@googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: [WikiJournal-en] WikiJournal as a reference in Wikipedia
Mikael, colleagues
The discussion seems clearly against accepting WJ as a 'reliable source' at the moment. It is unclear to me whether joining the discussion to argue about reviewers' anonymity and the academic status of the board would improve matters.
I have 3 observations:
1) We may hope that in a few years' time, WJ has enough reputation that Wikipedia will be willing to treat it as a reliable journal.
2) We are free to cut-and-paste to Wikipedia any WJ material which is sufficiently well cited to reliable sources, which would include peer-reviewed papers already published elsewhere by WJ authors. I note that mathematics articles seem to require fewer citations both on Wikipedia and in WJScience.
3) We could, I think, use material on WJ that isn't covered by citations in the same way as material on a known scientist's blog: Wikipedia allows 'blog' postings to be cited provided it can be shown that the person posting it is a recognised authority. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Identifying_reliable_sources#User-ge... "Self-published material may sometimes be acceptable when its author is an established expert whose work in the relevant field has been published by reliable third-party publications.") Mikael might or might not wish to try to confirm that on the discussion group.
Ian
Hi all,
WikiJournal content can be used in Wikipedia as per
Editorial_guidelines#Wikipedia_inclusion
https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/WikiJournal_User_Group/Editorial_guidelines#Wikipedia_inclusion, such as reviews based on other reliable sources.
There is currently an online discussion whether content from WikiJournal of Science can be a reliable source in Wikipedia, which would allow original research from WikiJournal to be added to Wikipedia as well. I'd appreciate additional input to this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard#Reliabi...
If the consensus is to deny this usage in Wikipedia, we could either settle for adding only content such as material from reviews, as well as images. Alternatively, we could make a better case by not allowing peer reviewers to process articles anonymously, and thereby base reliability on their credentials, in addition to the judgement of the boards. But first we'll see how this discussion goes.
Best regards,
Mikael
_______________________________________________ WikiJournal-en mailing list WikiJournal-en@lists.wikimedia.orgmailto:WikiJournal-en@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikijournal-en -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "WJM board" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to wjmboard+unsubscribe@googlegroups.commailto:wjmboard+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to wjmboard@googlegroups.commailto:wjmboard@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/wjmboard. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/wjmboard/YQBPR0101MB156991ADC78D0E83FCA5CE...https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/wjmboard/YQBPR0101MB156991ADC78D0E83FCA5CE9BD2710%40YQBPR0101MB1569.CANPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "WJH board" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to wjhboard+unsubscribe@googlegroups.commailto:wjhboard+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to wjhboard@googlegroups.commailto:wjhboard@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/wjhboard. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/wjhboard/96101525-33C2-40FC-82DF-E6626BA93...https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/wjhboard/96101525-33C2-40FC-82DF-E6626BA931BF%40hull.ac.uk?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --
AgriBio & La Trobe Institute for Molecular Science | Postdoctoral research fellow
Profiles at ResearchGatehttps://www.researchgate.net/profile/Thomas_Shafee | LinkedInhttp://www.linkedin.com/in/T-Shafee | GScholarhttp://scholar.google.co.uk/citations?hl=en&user=m6Qd3zIAAAAJ | AltMetrichttps://www.altmetric.com/explorer/report/9048e6b2-9f82-49b4-b786-2d56740804e3 | Wikipediahttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Evolution_and_evolvability
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For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
I very much second the importance of a DOI. In my work with faculty at my institution and their scholarly publishing,I've noticed that the new age of alt-metrics is catching on, and the DOI is the key to some of those numbers. Alt-metrics may be the attraction point for open access journals, but without a way to capture that data, it will be a lost opportunity.
--Sarah
On Wed, Jun 20, 2018 at 2:42 PM, Rachel Helps rachel_helps@byu.edu wrote:
I definitely mentioned the WikiJournal of Humanities when I was at the Leadership Bootcamp last weekend—people were interested! It also may take some time before a professor can use the journal on their tenure application. One of the other participants at the conference mentioned that since predatory journals are becoming more popular, tenure committees are more wary of new journals. Getting ISSN/DOI are good steps to improving our images a legitimate.
-Rachel
*From:* WikiJournal-en wikijournal-en-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org *On Behalf Of *Andrew Leung *Sent:* Tuesday, June 19, 2018 5:53 AM *To:* pld@chem.ucla.edu; Thomas Shafee thomas.shafee@gmail.com *Cc:* WJH board wjhboard@googlegroups.com; Roger Watson < R.Watson@hull.ac.uk>; WJS board wjsboard@googlegroups.com; WikiJournal participants wikijournal-en@lists.wikimedia.org; wjmboard < wjmboard@googlegroups.com> *Subject:* Re: [WikiJournal-en] WikiJournal as a reference in Wikipedia
In light of that recent discussion, I think we should ramp up the promotional messages like blogpost, Twitter, mailing list announcement and maybe even a Wikipedia Signpost interview to make the wider community be aware of our existence.
Andrew
Sent from my smartphone. Apologies for any typos.
-------- Original message --------
From: Paula Diaconescu pld@chem.ucla.edu
Date: 2018-06-18 9:58 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: Thomas Shafee thomas.shafee@gmail.com
Cc: Roger Watson R.Watson@hull.ac.uk, Andrew Leung < andrewcleung@hotmail.com>, WikiJournal participants <wikijournal-en@lists. wikimedia.org>, Mikael Häggström editor.in.chief@wikijmed.org, wjmboard wjmboard@googlegroups.com, WJH board wjhboard@googlegroups.com, WJS board wjsboard@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [WikiJournal-en] WikiJournal as a reference in Wikipedia
Hi everybody,
I understand that WikiJournal is broad, but, in my experience, what increases the reputation of a journal is a rigorous peer review system. The process does have a bit of catch-22 built in it because good reviewers don't want to take on articles from new journals, but that's where the editors need to step in and persuade reputable reviewers to take on the task. I personally am not a big fan of open identity reviewers. I think that, although one shouldn't take the scientific process personally, it is still difficult to accept criticism and it is a lot easier to make enemies if the criticisms are strong. Very few authors/reviewers are capable to not take it personally and those that unmask their identity tend not to have too many criticisms (a fact that, in itself, could question the quality of the review).
I agree that once WikiJournals are audited and certified by COPE https://publicationethics.org/membership, AOSPA https://oaspa.org/membership/membership-criteria/, Scopus, Pubmed, and Web of Science things will improve.
Paula
On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 4:20 PM, Thomas Shafee thomas.shafee@gmail.com wrote:
Good points. My position on this:
To clarify, WikiJournal material can still be integrated into Wikipedia as previously, the only thing is that it shouldn't currently be used as the sole support for a statement (particularly for articles going through internal good article or featured article review). Wikipedia can often have strict standards on what is a sufficiently reliable source, so I suspect that almost any journal with only 1 issue published would face the same scepticism at Wikipedia Reliable sources Noticeboard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard#Reliability_of_WikiJournal_of_Science .
If the position is that *WikiJournals don't have enough reputation yet*, then that doesn't change our plans particularly to continue building a reputation. I've had a similar response when approaching some authors of "I think I'll wait until the reputation is built". Many academics (especially in person, as opposed to by email) have been enthusiastic, so it's a case of proving ourselves over the coming years.
If the position is that *WikiJournals fundamentally can never have a good enough reputation *then I think that's based on flawed assumptions (like we don't check reviewer identities) and can be countered. It will also be countered as WikiJournals are audited and certified by COPE https://publicationethics.org/membership, AOSPA https://oaspa.org/membership/membership-criteria/, Scopus, Pubmed, and Web of Science.
WikiJMed is currently being considered by COPE, so I propose that WikiJSci similarly apply once we have feedback from WikiJMed's experience. We can also encourage more peer reviewers to have their identities open. Our current reviewer confirmation email template https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/WikiJournal_of_Science/Editorial_guidelines/Message_templates#Confirming_a_reviewer uses the phrase: *"**Both anonymous and non-anonymous reviews are permitted (approx 60% of our reviewers choose to have their identity open)..."*
We could word to make more positive, and stating a preference for open identities like: *"We believe that having reviewer identities open builds trust in the review process, however you may remain anonymous upon request"*
Overall, I think that it's a useful litmus test of some Wikipedian views, but the already-intended reputation building plans should address them.
Thomas
On Tue, 19 Jun 2018 at 05:32 Roger Watson R.Watson@hull.ac.uk wrote:
My only contribution to this - apart from astonishment at Wikipedia not considering a peer reviewed journal within its own stable as a reliable source - is that in trying to create and edit Wikipedia pages and watching mine develop as others try to add to it, is a great deal of inconsistency across pages. I note for example one colleagues page has his books listed; someone did the same for mine and this was deleted in the basis of being a ‘shopping list’ and replaced by a very unhelpful list of my three most cited papers. I see same editor did this to another page that I happen to be working on. On the other hand I look at the page belonging to my cousin
- a Dame - and it seems if your really elevated that anything goes in terms
of what can be listed.
Roger
Sent from my iPhone
Twitter: @rwatson1955
Skype: roger.watson3
Mobile: +447808480547 <+44%207808%20480547>
On 18 Jun 2018, at 17:53, Andrew Leung andrewcleung@hotmail.com wrote:
Or use the ultimate trump card: IAR (ignore all rules if it prevents you from improving Wikipedia)
Andrew
Sent from my smartphone. Apologies for any typos.
-------- Original message --------
From: Ian Alexander iany@scenarioplus.org.uk
Date: 2018-06-18 12:50 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: Mikael Häggström <editor.in.chief@wikijmed.org
Cc: "WikiJournal (currently at Wikiversity)" <wikijournal-en@lists. wikimedia.org>, wjmboard wjmboard@googlegroups.com, WJH board < wjhboard@googlegroups.com>, WJS board wjsboard@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [WikiJournal-en] WikiJournal as a reference in Wikipedia
Mikael, colleagues
The discussion seems clearly against accepting WJ as a 'reliable source' at the moment. It is unclear to me whether joining the discussion to argue about reviewers' anonymity and the academic status of the board would improve matters.
I have 3 observations:
- We may hope that in a few years' time, WJ has enough reputation that
Wikipedia will be willing to treat it as a reliable journal.
- We are free to cut-and-paste to Wikipedia any WJ material which is
sufficiently well cited to reliable sources, which would include peer-reviewed papers already published elsewhere by WJ authors. I note that mathematics articles seem to require fewer citations both on Wikipedia and in WJScience.
- We could, I think, use material on WJ that isn't covered by citations
in the same way as material on a known scientist's blog: Wikipedia allows 'blog' postings to be cited provided it can be shown that the person posting it is a recognised authority. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Identifying_ reliable_sources#User-generated_content "Self-published material may sometimes be acceptable when its author is an established expert whose work in the relevant field has been published by reliable third-party publications.") Mikael might or might not wish to try to confirm that on the discussion group.
Ian
Hi all,
WikiJournal content can be used in Wikipedia as per
Editorial_guidelines#Wikipedia_inclusion
Editorial_guidelines#Wikipedia_inclusion>,
such as reviews based on other reliable sources.
There is currently an online discussion whether content from WikiJournal
of
Science can be a reliable source in Wikipedia, which would allow original research from WikiJournal to be added to Wikipedia as well. I'd
appreciate
additional input to this:
Noticeboard#Reliability_of_WikiJournal_of_Science
If the consensus is to deny this usage in Wikipedia, we could either
settle
for adding only content such as material from reviews, as well as images. Alternatively, we could make a better case by not allowing peer reviewers to process articles anonymously, and thereby base reliability on their credentials, in addition to the judgement of the boards. But first we'll see how this discussion goes.
Best regards,
Mikael
WikiJournal-en mailing list WikiJournal-en@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikijournal-en
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--
*AgriBio* & *La Trobe Institute for Molecular Science* | Postdoctoral research fellow
Profiles at ResearchGate https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Thomas_Shafee | LinkedIn http://www.linkedin.com/in/T-Shafee | GScholar http://scholar.google.co.uk/citations?hl=en&user=m6Qd3zIAAAAJ | AltMetric https://www.altmetric.com/explorer/report/9048e6b2-9f82-49b4-b786-2d56740804e3 | Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Evolution_and_evolvability
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For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
WikiJournal-en mailing list WikiJournal-en@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikijournal-en
As one of the other new members of our journal community, I agree about the importance of a DOI. That is one of the key indicators we use when we teach research for students to look for when trying to assess new sources for quality and credibility.
Nice to meet all of you!
-----
With Incredulity toward Metanarratives,
Jeffrey User:FULBERT FULBERT@fulbert.org
On Jun 25, 2018, at 2:21 PM, Sarah Vital svital@stmarys-ca.edu wrote:
I very much second the importance of a DOI. In my work with faculty at my institution and their scholarly publishing,I've noticed that the new age of alt-metrics is catching on, and the DOI is the key to some of those numbers. Alt-metrics may be the attraction point for open access journals, but without a way to capture that data, it will be a lost opportunity.
--Sarah
On Wed, Jun 20, 2018 at 2:42 PM, Rachel Helps <rachel_helps@byu.edu mailto:rachel_helps@byu.edu> wrote: I definitely mentioned the WikiJournal of Humanities when I was at the Leadership Bootcamp last weekend—people were interested! It also may take some time before a professor can use the journal on their tenure application. One of the other participants at the conference mentioned that since predatory journals are becoming more popular, tenure committees are more wary of new journals. Getting ISSN/DOI are good steps to improving our images a legitimate.
-Rachel
From: WikiJournal-en <wikijournal-en-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:wikijournal-en-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org> On Behalf Of Andrew Leung Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2018 5:53 AM To: pld@chem.ucla.edu mailto:pld@chem.ucla.edu; Thomas Shafee <thomas.shafee@gmail.com mailto:thomas.shafee@gmail.com> Cc: WJH board <wjhboard@googlegroups.com mailto:wjhboard@googlegroups.com>; Roger Watson <R.Watson@hull.ac.uk mailto:R.Watson@hull.ac.uk>; WJS board <wjsboard@googlegroups.com mailto:wjsboard@googlegroups.com>; WikiJournal participants <wikijournal-en@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:wikijournal-en@lists.wikimedia.org>; wjmboard <wjmboard@googlegroups.com mailto:wjmboard@googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: [WikiJournal-en] WikiJournal as a reference in Wikipedia
In light of that recent discussion, I think we should ramp up the promotional messages like blogpost, Twitter, mailing list announcement and maybe even a Wikipedia Signpost interview to make the wider community be aware of our existence.
Andrew
Sent from my smartphone. Apologies for any typos.
-------- Original message --------
From: Paula Diaconescu <pld@chem.ucla.edu mailto:pld@chem.ucla.edu>
Date: 2018-06-18 9:58 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: Thomas Shafee <thomas.shafee@gmail.com mailto:thomas.shafee@gmail.com>
Cc: Roger Watson <R.Watson@hull.ac.uk mailto:R.Watson@hull.ac.uk>, Andrew Leung <andrewcleung@hotmail.com mailto:andrewcleung@hotmail.com>, WikiJournal participants <wikijournal-en@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:wikijournal-en@lists.wikimedia.org>, Mikael Häggström <editor.in.chief@wikijmed.org mailto:editor.in.chief@wikijmed.org>, wjmboard <wjmboard@googlegroups.com mailto:wjmboard@googlegroups.com>, WJH board <wjhboard@googlegroups.com mailto:wjhboard@googlegroups.com>, WJS board <wjsboard@googlegroups.com mailto:wjsboard@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [WikiJournal-en] WikiJournal as a reference in Wikipedia
Hi everybody,
I understand that WikiJournal is broad, but, in my experience, what increases the reputation of a journal is a rigorous peer review system. The process does have a bit of catch-22 built in it because good reviewers don't want to take on articles from new journals, but that's where the editors need to step in and persuade reputable reviewers to take on the task. I personally am not a big fan of open identity reviewers. I think that, although one shouldn't take the scientific process personally, it is still difficult to accept criticism and it is a lot easier to make enemies if the criticisms are strong. Very few authors/reviewers are capable to not take it personally and those that unmask their identity tend not to have too many criticisms (a fact that, in itself, could question the quality of the review).
I agree that once WikiJournals are audited and certified by COPE https://publicationethics.org/membership, AOSPA https://oaspa.org/membership/membership-criteria/, Scopus, Pubmed, and Web of Science things will improve.
Paula
On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 4:20 PM, Thomas Shafee <thomas.shafee@gmail.com mailto:thomas.shafee@gmail.com> wrote:
Good points. My position on this:
To clarify, WikiJournal material can still be integrated into Wikipedia as previously, the only thing is that it shouldn't currently be used as the sole support for a statement (particularly for articles going through internal good article or featured article review). Wikipedia can often have strict standards on what is a sufficiently reliable source, so I suspect that almost any journal with only 1 issue published would face the same scepticism at Wikipedia Reliable sources Noticeboard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard#Reliability_of_WikiJournal_of_Science.
If the position is that WikiJournals don't have enough reputation yet, then that doesn't change our plans particularly to continue building a reputation. I've had a similar response when approaching some authors of "I think I'll wait until the reputation is built". Many academics (especially in person, as opposed to by email) have been enthusiastic, so it's a case of proving ourselves over the coming years.
If the position is that WikiJournals fundamentally can never have a good enough reputation then I think that's based on flawed assumptions (like we don't check reviewer identities) and can be countered. It will also be countered as WikiJournals are audited and certified by COPE https://publicationethics.org/membership, AOSPA https://oaspa.org/membership/membership-criteria/, Scopus, Pubmed, and Web of Science.
WikiJMed is currently being considered by COPE, so I propose that WikiJSci similarly apply once we have feedback from WikiJMed's experience. We can also encourage more peer reviewers to have their identities open. Our current reviewer confirmation email template https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/WikiJournal_of_Science/Editorial_guidelines/Message_templates#Confirming_a_reviewer uses the phrase: "Both anonymous and non-anonymous reviews are permitted (approx 60% of our reviewers choose to have their identity open)..."
We could word to make more positive, and stating a preference for open identities like: "We believe that having reviewer identities open builds trust in the review process, however you may remain anonymous upon request"
Overall, I think that it's a useful litmus test of some Wikipedian views, but the already-intended reputation building plans should address them.
Thomas
On Tue, 19 Jun 2018 at 05:32 Roger Watson <R.Watson@hull.ac.uk mailto:R.Watson@hull.ac.uk> wrote:
My only contribution to this - apart from astonishment at Wikipedia not considering a peer reviewed journal within its own stable as a reliable source - is that in trying to create and edit Wikipedia pages and watching mine develop as others try to add to it, is a great deal of inconsistency across pages. I note for example one colleagues page has his books listed; someone did the same for mine and this was deleted in the basis of being a ‘shopping list’ and replaced by a very unhelpful list of my three most cited papers. I see same editor did this to another page that I happen to be working on. On the other hand I look at the page belonging to my cousin - a Dame - and it seems if your really elevated that anything goes in terms of what can be listed.
Roger
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On 18 Jun 2018, at 17:53, Andrew Leung <andrewcleung@hotmail.com mailto:andrewcleung@hotmail.com> wrote:
Or use the ultimate trump card: IAR (ignore all rules if it prevents you from improving Wikipedia)
Andrew
Sent from my smartphone. Apologies for any typos.
-------- Original message --------
From: Ian Alexander <iany@scenarioplus.org.uk mailto:iany@scenarioplus.org.uk>
Date: 2018-06-18 12:50 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: Mikael Häggström <<editor.in.chief@wikijmed.org mailto:editor.in.chief@wikijmed.org>
Cc: "WikiJournal (currently at Wikiversity)" <wikijournal-en@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:wikijournal-en@lists.wikimedia.org>, wjmboard <wjmboard@googlegroups.com mailto:wjmboard@googlegroups.com>, WJH board <wjhboard@googlegroups.com mailto:wjhboard@googlegroups.com>, WJS board <wjsboard@googlegroups.com mailto:wjsboard@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [WikiJournal-en] WikiJournal as a reference in Wikipedia
Mikael, colleagues
The discussion seems clearly against accepting WJ as a 'reliable source' at the moment. It is unclear to me whether joining the discussion to argue about reviewers' anonymity and the academic status of the board would improve matters.
I have 3 observations:
- We may hope that in a few years' time, WJ has enough reputation that
Wikipedia will be willing to treat it as a reliable journal.
- We are free to cut-and-paste to Wikipedia any WJ material which is
sufficiently well cited to reliable sources, which would include peer-reviewed papers already published elsewhere by WJ authors. I note that mathematics articles seem to require fewer citations both on Wikipedia and in WJScience.
- We could, I think, use material on WJ that isn't covered by citations
in the same way as material on a known scientist's blog: Wikipedia allows 'blog' postings to be cited provided it can be shown that the person posting it is a recognised authority. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Identifying_reliable_sources#User-ge... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Identifying_reliable_sources#User-generated_content "Self-published material may sometimes be acceptable when its author is an established expert whose work in the relevant field has been published by reliable third-party publications.") Mikael might or might not wish to try to confirm that on the discussion group.
Ian
Hi all,
WikiJournal content can be used in Wikipedia as per
Editorial_guidelines#Wikipedia_inclusion
<https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/WikiJournal_User_Group/Editorial_guidelines#... https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/WikiJournal_User_Group/Editorial_guidelines#Wikipedia_inclusion>, such as reviews based on other reliable sources.
There is currently an online discussion whether content from WikiJournal of Science can be a reliable source in Wikipedia, which would allow original research from WikiJournal to be added to Wikipedia as well. I'd appreciate additional input to this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard#Reliabi... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard#Reliability_of_WikiJournal_of_Science
If the consensus is to deny this usage in Wikipedia, we could either settle for adding only content such as material from reviews, as well as images. Alternatively, we could make a better case by not allowing peer reviewers to process articles anonymously, and thereby base reliability on their credentials, in addition to the judgement of the boards. But first we'll see how this discussion goes.
Best regards,
Mikael
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