Hi Pine, That's great to hear, I was really pleased with how Xero worked for our organisation and I hope it's just as good for you. If you (or any other user group) need a hand with it, please feel free to drop me a line as I've a few years experience with it now. Cheers, Craig Franklin On 16 February 2015 at 15:59, Pine W &lt;wiki.pine(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: > Hi Treasurers and other finance people, > > I realize that we had this discussion some months ago about accounting > software. I just wanted to follow up by letting you know that Cascadia > decided to go with Xero as we start. Your advice was helpful and I > greatly > appreciate it. > > I hope to meet many of you at the Wikimedia Conference in Germany this > year. > > Regards, > > Pine > (now Executive Director for Cascadia Wikimedians User Group) > On Aug 20, 2014 4:12 AM, "Richard Symonds" < > richard.symonds(a)wikimedia.org.uk&gt; wrote: > >> Hi Pine, >> >> I started off doing the accounts at WMUK several years ago and looked >> at a >> fair few different systems, including open source. >> >> Initially we used Gnucash, I believe, but because no-one else used it - >> including our auditors - it was not very useful when we needed to >> create >> year end accounts. I also considered CiviCRM after viewing a talk from >> the >> Swedish chapter in 2012. However, the talk was not encouraging - >> CiviCRM >> needs a *lot *of work to be useable as an accounting system. I would >> not >> therefore recommend Gnucash or CiviCRM or any other open source system: >> you >> will find it almost impossible to find an accountant who uses them, and >> also almost impossible to find a CiviCRM developer who is also an >> accountant! Your auditors will not know how to use the data and will >> not >> have the programs to access it, so in the end you will have to pay >> extra >> for the "free" software. >> >> In short: open source programs are good for small charity accounts, but >> the >> moment you start hiring staff (of any sort), or have fixed assets or >> non-cash donations, the system does not scale and as a result you will >> incur large overheads trying to get it to work. You might run into a >> problem with CiviCRM if you need to generate invoices for a conference >> you >> run in three or four years time - will your system be able to handle >> it, >> or >> will you need to upgrade everything at much greater cost? >> >> We also looked at Quickbooks, Sage, and a few others. In the end, we >> picked >> Sage - not because it was cheap, or because it was ethical - but >> because >> it >> is the UK standard and practically all UK accountants know how to use >> it. >> It has a huge support network, and it is scalable from a self-employed >> person up to an organisation with many thousands of employees. Sage is >> not >> used much in the USA though, so Quickbooks may be a better idea for >> you. >> >> My advice to you would be: >> >> - Plan for the future - ten year's time. Your solution needs to be >> scalable with little fuss. >> - Use something that has a proven track record - don't got for >> anything >> like a startup, because you need it supported in future and you >> can't >> take >> the risk. >> - Cloud-based is good, but the Treasurer really needs to understand >> what's happening - things should go through him where possible. >> - Don't be afraid to spend money if money needs to be spent. >> - Don't be afraid to ask the WMF directly for their advice. They >> know >> their stuff and it'd be good if your accounts were run on a similar >> system >> to theirs - cheaper in the long run, and you've got someone to turn >> to >> if >> it all breaks. >> >> I hope this helps! Feel free to drop me an email if you have any more >> specific questions. >> >> >> >> >> >> Richard Symonds >> Wikimedia UK >> 0207 065 0992 >> >> Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England >> and >> Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. >> Registered >> Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A >> 4LT. >> United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia >> movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation >> (who >> operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects). >> >> *Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal >> control >> over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.* >> >> >> On 20 August 2014 10:57, Manuel Schneider >> &lt;manuel.schneider(a)wikimedia.ch&gt; >> wrote: >> >> > Hi Pine, >> > >> > you may want to evaluate CiviCRM. >> > It is not perfect but supports accounting (rather than just recording >> > donations as before) about a year. >> > The advantage of CiviCRM is the fact that it integrates membership >> > management, mailings, donors management and that it can be used >> > centrally by all the committee members. >> > >> > The setup and customization is not so easy with CiviCRM but there are >> > plenty of people in the movement who gathered some experience with >> that. >> > >> > /Manuel >> > >> > -- >> > Wikimedia CH - Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens >> > Lausanne, +41 (21) 34066-22 - www.wikimedia.ch >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines >> > Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org >> > Unsubscribe: >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >> > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines >> Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org >> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/GuidelinesWikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > > _______________________________________________ > Treasurers mailing list > Treasurers(a)lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/treasurers >