Hi, could someone please install Image::Magick on hemlock? I'm now writing tool to detect resized copies of images (to replace'em with [[Image:Best image name|size]] and mark'em for deletion per WP:SPEEDY I1), and this module is required for it.
-- Ed
Edward, I think you should request such things either in ts-admins (@wikimedia.org) or in JIRA.
Edward Chernenko writes:
Hi, could someone please install Image::Magick on hemlock? I'm now writing tool to detect resized copies of images (to replace'em with [[Image:Best image name|size]] and mark'em for deletion per WP:SPEEDY I1), and this module is required for it.
-- Ed
The same people will see it no matter where you email it to/put it up, and probably more likely to be actioned on somewhere like here.
-Matt
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 17:13:02 +0400 From: vasilvv@gmail.com To: toolserver-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Toolserver-l] Perl module required
Edward, I think you should request such things either in ts-admins (@wikimedia.org) or in JIRA.
Edward Chernenko writes:
Hi, could someone please install Image::Magick on hemlock? I'm now writing tool to detect resized copies of images (to replace'em with [[Image:Best image name|size]] and mark'em for deletion per WP:SPEEDY I1), and this module is required for it.
-- Ed
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The Fearow:
The same people will see it no matter where you email it to/put it up, and probably more likely to be actioned on somewhere like here.
the correct place to request software installation is in JIRA. requests there can be easily managed, whereas mailing list posts and IRC requests tend to get lost or forgotten.
- river.
What is JIRA?
Luca
On 10/1/07, River Tarnell river@wikimedia.org wrote:
The Fearow:
The same people will see it no matter where you email it to/put it up,
and
probably more likely to be actioned on somewhere like here.
the correct place to request software installation is in JIRA. requests there can be easily managed, whereas mailing list posts and IRC requests tend to get lost or forgotten.
- river.
Toolserver-l mailing list Toolserver-l@lists.wikimedia.org http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/toolserver-l
Hey, I'd like to get an exemption to run a copy of Ventrilo (http://www.ventrilo.com/index.php) for use as an alternative to IRC. For a start it will be for Wikinews, although I intend to make it into a general Wikimedia server. I'll make channels available that pretty much align with the IRC ones.
I can answer any questions if necessary.
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Im just curious, have you considered using any other voice-com software? If so, why did you decide to go with Ventrilo? Ventrilo-clients are currently only supported on windows and mac, do you know of a linux-clients solution? (A linux-client from ventrilo was posted as "pending release" in May 2005)
-HP
On 05/10/2007, The Fearow fearow00@hotmail.com wrote:
Hey, I'd like to get an exemption to run a copy of Ventrilo (http://www.ventrilo.com/index.php) for use as an alternative to IRC. For a start it will be for Wikinews, although I intend to make it into a general Wikimedia server. I'll make channels available that pretty much align with the IRC ones.
I can answer any questions if necessary.
Thanks, -Matt
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TeamSpeak may be a viable option, but we may fall under the "pay" users. Someone would have to look into that.
~ Paul
Hans-Petter Fjeld wrote:
Im just curious, have you considered using any other voice-com software? If so, why did you decide to go with Ventrilo? Ventrilo-clients are currently only supported on windows and mac, do you know of a linux-clients solution? (A linux-client from ventrilo was posted as "pending release" in May 2005)
-HP
On 05/10/2007, The Fearow fearow00@hotmail.com wrote:
Hey, I'd like to get an exemption to run a copy of Ventrilo (http://www.ventrilo.com/index.php) for use as an alternative to IRC. For a start it will be for Wikinews, although I intend to make it into a general Wikimedia server. I'll make channels available that pretty much align with the IRC ones.
I can answer any questions if necessary.
Thanks, -Matt
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Hans-Petter Fjeld wrote:
Im just curious, have you considered using any other voice-com software? If so, why did you decide to go with Ventrilo? Ventrilo-clients are currently only supported on windows and mac, do you know of a linux-clients solution? (A linux-client from ventrilo was posted as "pending release" in May 2005)
-HP
It may be overkill, but I know that the Asterisk PBX supports SIP, similar to Skype and Gizmo.
Alex
On 10/6/07, Alex Rowe alex.d.rowe@gmail.com wrote:
It may be overkill, but I know that the Asterisk PBX supports SIP, similar to Skype and Gizmo.
I'm not sure the OP's intentions, but Wikiversity-en has done a bit of work with Asterisk, and it doesn't just support SIP, but a wide range of technologies.
Wikiversity has some interest in getting this working, but I'm not sure it fits into the Toolserver's rules of engagement. It has some great uses in an educational setting, and we'd be happy to demo it if it needs formal evaluation.
Gerald
I'm a fairly advanced user of Asterisk, if it is decided to go with it I could help set it up. I also use Vent and TeamSpeak, so what ever works. ;)
On 10/6/07, Gerald A geraldablists@gmail.com wrote:
On 10/6/07, Alex Rowe alex.d.rowe@gmail.com wrote:
It may be overkill, but I know that the Asterisk PBX supports SIP, similar to Skype and Gizmo.
I'm not sure the OP's intentions, but Wikiversity-en has done a bit of work with Asterisk, and it doesn't just support SIP, but a wide range of technologies.
Wikiversity has some interest in getting this working, but I'm not sure it fits into the Toolserver's rules of engagement. It has some great uses in an educational setting, and we'd be happy to demo it if it needs formal evaluation.
Gerald
Toolserver-l mailing list Toolserver-l@lists.wikimedia.org http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/toolserver-l
So you have expirience with them all, do you think one will be better than another? If so, why?
On 06/10/2007, Brandon Weeks bjweeks16@gmail.com wrote:
I'm a fairly advanced user of Asterisk, if it is decided to go with it I could help set it up. I also use Vent and TeamSpeak, so what ever works. ;)
On 10/6/07, Gerald A geraldablists@gmail.com wrote:
On 10/6/07, Alex Rowe < alex.d.rowe@gmail.com> wrote:
It may be overkill, but I know that the Asterisk PBX supports SIP, similar to Skype and Gizmo.
I'm not sure the OP's intentions, but Wikiversity-en has done a bit of
work with Asterisk, and it doesn't just
support SIP, but a wide range of technologies.
Wikiversity has some interest in getting this working, but I'm not sure it
fits into the Toolserver's rules of engagement. It has some great uses in an educational setting, and we'd be happy to demo it if it needs formal evaluation.
Gerald
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Something slightly similar that Sean Whitton wanted to do got denied a bit ago by River: http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/toolserver-l/2007-May/000765.html
On 10/5/07, The Fearow fearow00@hotmail.com wrote:
Hey, I'd like to get an exemption to run a copy of Ventrilo ( http://www.ventrilo.com/index.php) for use as an alternative to IRC. For a start it will be for Wikinews, although I intend to make it into a general Wikimedia server. I'll make channels available that pretty much align with the IRC ones.
I can answer any questions if necessary.
Thanks, -Matt
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I asked river first, they said to post here. Regarding the version with linux support - if anyone can recommend one that has as many features as ventrilo, i'd be happy to switch to that. I'd like this exemption to be for "general voice chat server" rather than "ventrilo voice chat server", incase we do switch in future. Ventrilo's popularity and great channel support are the main reasons I want it.
I'd like to run a test to see memory consumption etc as well as processor usage and speed. Any major objections to that, or can I run it for a day or so? (i'll do so if no objections in a few days).
-Matt
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 19:53:20 -0400From: cbrown1023.ml@gmail.comTo: toolserver-l@lists.wikimedia.orgSubject: Re: [Toolserver-l] Exemption to third party software ruleSomething slightly similar that Sean Whitton wanted to do got denied a bit ago by River: http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/toolserver-l/2007-May/000765.html On 10/5/07, The Fearow fearow00@hotmail.com wrote:
Hey,I'd like to get an exemption to run a copy of Ventrilo (http://www.ventrilo.com/index.php ) for use as an alternative to IRC. For a start it will be for Wikinews, although I intend to make it into a general Wikimedia server. I'll make channels available that pretty much align with the IRC ones. I can answer any questions if necessary. Thanks,-Matt
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The Fearow wrote:
I'd like this exemption to be for "general voice chat server" rather than "ventrilo voice chat server", incase we do switch in future.
I don't think that's possible - this policy is mainly about security, so an exemption can be granted only for a specific software package. The exemption basically says "we trust that software and its maintainers" - a blanket statement would make no sense.
Also keep in mind that if you install and run this on the toolserver, *you* are responsible for making a sane & secure configuration, keeping it up to date with security patches, etc. Trusting you to do that is another prerequisite to granting an exception to the policy as I understand it.
-- daniel
As an afterthought:
This may also have legal implications. Offering a voice server (or an irc gateway) may make you (or us, or the Wikimedia e.V.!) an "service provider" in the sense of German Law (which applies since the toolserver is run by the German Wikimedia e.V.) This would imply some liability wrt content, and it might also mean that we have to offer a surveillance interface (seriously!). I'm not sure about the detailed conditions and implications, but it would probably be a good idea to ask the e.V. about it, or rather to ask them to seek legal advise on the matter. Which make take a while.
-- Daniel
PS: it would actually be interesting to know in how far all this already applies because we are running a web hosting (!) service.
The Fearow wrote:
I asked river first, they said to post here. Regarding the version with linux support - if anyone can recommend one that has as many features as ventrilo, i'd be happy to switch to that. I'd like this exemption to be for "general voice chat server" rather than "ventrilo voice chat server", incase we do switch in future. Ventrilo's popularity and great channel support are the main reasons I want it.
-Matt
In my opinion (as Windows user) either it has Linux client support or it shouldn't be allowed. I do believe that Wikimedia should encourage the using of open technologies, but if they not exists, at least guarantee the compatibility with Win&Lin. Otherwise, we wouldn't sending a good message.
Snowolf
On 10/5/07, The Fearow fearow00@hotmail.com wrote:
Hey, I'd like to get an exemption to run a copy of Ventrilo (http://www.ventrilo.com/index.php) for use as an alternative to IRC. For a start it will be for Wikinews, although I intend to make it into a general Wikimedia server. I'll make channels available that pretty much align with the IRC ones.
I can answer any questions if necessary.
Ignoring for a moment whatever issue Wikimedia Deutschland may have with someone running a VoIP server on equipment they own:
I think it's a bad idea to run a closed/proprietary VoIP service with limited cross platform support.
If we want to do VoIP stuff we should use Asterisk, which I've maintained before and wouldn't mind helping with. The challenge then becomes making good client software recommendations, which is something that I can't help with for windows/mac users. :) There are, however, a lot of options.
Beyond the advantages of staying in the realm of free/open protocols and software using asterisk has other advantages: It's very easy to tie applications/tools into asterisk. For example, when I ran a demo asterisk server for some Wikimedia stuff I setup an interface that allowed you to listen call a 1800 number and listen to spoken Wikipedia articles, and the interface only took a few minutes to setup.
In that case, I think i'm going to do with something like Asterisk. I chose Ventrilo as its already popular and has a lot of options. Does asterisk support channels, moderation, etc?
One other feature about Ventrilo that as far as I can tell would be more difficult with something like Asterisk, is the TTS engine for users without a microphone. It sounds decent (although for those poor SP1 users they get Microsoft Sam), and allows users with no microphone to participate in voice chat.
Could anyone provide some examples of good compatible clients that support these features?
-Matt Note: I also love the idea of a gateway from standard telephone, but we probably wouldnt be able to do that. If we could it'd be a great way to start a de Wikinews Hotline (see the main page of Wikinews).
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 14:08:18 -0400> From: gmaxwell@gmail.com> To: toolserver-l@lists.wikimedia.org> Subject: Re: [Toolserver-l] Exemption to third party software rule> > On 10/5/07, The Fearow fearow00@hotmail.com wrote:> >> > Hey,> > I'd like to get an exemption to run a copy of Ventrilo> > (http://www.ventrilo.com/index.php) for use as an> > alternative to IRC. For a start it will be for Wikinews, although I intend> > to make it into a general Wikimedia server. I'll make channels available> > that pretty much align with the IRC ones.> >> > I can answer any questions if necessary.> > Ignoring for a moment whatever issue Wikimedia Deutschland may have> with someone running a VoIP server on equipment they own:> > I think it's a bad idea to run a closed/proprietary VoIP service with> limited cross platform support.> > If we want to do VoIP stuff we should use Asterisk, which I've> maintained before and wouldn't mind helping with. The challenge then> becomes making good client software recommendations, which is> something that I can't help with for windows/mac users. :) There are,> however, a lot of options.> > Beyond the advantages of staying in the realm of free/open protocols> and software using asterisk has other advantages: It's very easy to> tie applications/tools into asterisk. For example, when I ran a demo> asterisk server for some Wikimedia stuff I setup an interface that> allowed you to listen call a 1800 number and listen to spoken> Wikipedia articles, and the interface only took a few minutes to> setup.> > _______________________________________________> Toolserver-l mailing list> Toolserver-l@lists.wikimedia.org> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/toolserver-l
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I think you misunderstand. Asterisk is a phone PBX that supports VoIP, it is not a internet chat application like Vent or TS. No client is going to have a GUI anything like Vent, the clients used will be so called softphones that will dial the server. Channels are conference rooms in Asterisk, like office phone conference systems. Moderation can be done, but again the clients will have no GUI for this.
Asterisk can use TTS but not for what you want. People will need a mic (or phone) to use the system. For clients you need a softphone, Kiax is a good IAX softphone and X-lite is a good SIP softphone (or just google for "sip softphone" or "iax softphone").
A phone gateway would be possible (and even totally free, but you can't get free tollfree numbers). I wouldn't suggest trying to do this on your own if you have little VoIP knowledge as the learning curve is quite large. If you don't use a configuration GUI (which I think is a really bad idea) you would have to write the dialplan logic by hand and configure the rest of the system.
On 10/6/07, The Fearow fearow00@hotmail.com wrote:
In that case, I think i'm going to do with something like Asterisk. I chose Ventrilo as its already popular and has a lot of options. Does asterisk support channels, moderation, etc?
One other feature about Ventrilo that as far as I can tell would be more difficult with something like Asterisk, is the TTS engine for users without a microphone. It sounds decent (although for those poor SP1 users they get Microsoft Sam), and allows users with no microphone to participate in voice chat.
Could anyone provide some examples of good compatible clients that support these features?
-Matt
Note: I also love the idea of a gateway from standard telephone, but we probably wouldnt be able to do that. If we could it'd be a great way to start a de Wikinews Hotline (see the main page of Wikinews).
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 14:08:18 -0400 From: gmaxwell@gmail.com To: toolserver-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Toolserver-l] Exemption to third party software rule
On 10/5/07, The Fearow fearow00@hotmail.com wrote:
Hey, I'd like to get an exemption to run a copy of Ventrilo (http://www.ventrilo.com/index.php) for use as an alternative to IRC. For a start it will be for Wikinews, although I
intend
to make it into a general Wikimedia server. I'll make channels
available
that pretty much align with the IRC ones.
I can answer any questions if necessary.
Ignoring for a moment whatever issue Wikimedia Deutschland may have with someone running a VoIP server on equipment they own:
I think it's a bad idea to run a closed/proprietary VoIP service with limited cross platform support.
If we want to do VoIP stuff we should use Asterisk, which I've maintained before and wouldn't mind helping with. The challenge then becomes making good client software recommendations, which is something that I can't help with for windows/mac users. :) There are, however, a lot of options.
Beyond the advantages of staying in the realm of free/open protocols and software using asterisk has other advantages: It's very easy to tie applications/tools into asterisk. For example, when I ran a demo asterisk server for some Wikimedia stuff I setup an interface that allowed you to listen call a 1800 number and listen to spoken Wikipedia articles, and the interface only took a few minutes to setup.
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In that case, Asterisk is not going to work. Can we trial Ventrilo? The linux client is coming out soon enough.
Asterisk lacks many of the features that we need to actually make it popular.
If we cant use Ventrilo, i'm going to try building a simple system for our purposes.-Matt
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 15:06:25 -0700From: bjweeks16@gmail.comTo: toolserver-l@lists.wikimedia.orgSubject: Re: [Toolserver-l] Exemption to third party software ruleI think you misunderstand. Asterisk is a phone PBX that supports VoIP, it is not a internet chat application like Vent or TS. No client is going to have a GUI anything like Vent, the clients used will be so called softphones that will dial the server. Channels are conference rooms in Asterisk, like office phone conference systems. Moderation can be done, but again the clients will have no GUI for this. Asterisk can use TTS but not for what you want. People will need a mic (or phone) to use the system. For clients you need a softphone, Kiax is a good IAX softphone and X-lite is a good SIP softphone (or just google for "sip softphone" or "iax softphone"). A phone gateway would be possible (and even totally free, but you can't get free tollfree numbers). I wouldn't suggest trying to do this on your own if you have little VoIP knowledge as the learning curve is quite large. If you don't use a configuration GUI (which I think is a really bad idea) you would have to write the dialplan logic by hand and configure the rest of the system. On 10/6/07, The Fearow fearow00@hotmail.com wrote:
In that case, I think i'm going to do with something like Asterisk. I chose Ventrilo as its already popular and has a lot of options. Does asterisk support channels, moderation, etc? One other feature about Ventrilo that as far as I can tell would be more difficult with something like Asterisk, is the TTS engine for users without a microphone. It sounds decent (although for those poor SP1 users they get Microsoft Sam), and allows users with no microphone to participate in voice chat. Could anyone provide some examples of good compatible clients that support these features? -MattNote: I also love the idea of a gateway from standard telephone, but we probably wouldnt be able to do that. If we could it'd be a great way to start a de Wikinews Hotline (see the main page of Wikinews).
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 14:08:18 -0400> From: gmaxwell@gmail.com> To: toolserver-l@lists.wikimedia.org> Subject: Re: [Toolserver-l] Exemption to third party software rule> On 10/5/07, The Fearow < fearow00@hotmail.com> wrote:> >> > Hey,> > I'd like to get an exemption to run a copy of Ventrilo> > ( http://www.ventrilo.com/index.php) for use as an> > alternative to IRC. For a start it will be for Wikinews, although I intend> > to make it into a general Wikimedia server. I'll make channels available > > that pretty much align with the IRC ones.> >> > I can answer any questions if necessary.> > Ignoring for a moment whatever issue Wikimedia Deutschland may have> with someone running a VoIP server on equipment they own: > > I think it's a bad idea to run a closed/proprietary VoIP service with> limited cross platform support.> > If we want to do VoIP stuff we should use Asterisk, which I've> maintained before and wouldn't mind helping with. The challenge then > becomes making good client software recommendations, which is> something that I can't help with for windows/mac users. :) There are,> however, a lot of options.> > Beyond the advantages of staying in the realm of free/open protocols > and software using asterisk has other advantages: It's very easy to> tie applications/tools into asterisk. For example, when I ran a demo> asterisk server for some Wikimedia stuff I setup an interface that > allowed you to listen call a 1800 number and listen to spoken> Wikipedia articles, and the interface only took a few minutes to> setup.> > _______________________________________________ > Toolserver-l mailing list> Toolserver-l@lists.wikimedia.org> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/toolserver-l
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I'm going to try that; see if I can find some decent compression libraries for java. For now, i'll cancel my request.
-Matt
Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2007 00:36:07 +0200 From: mohamed.m.k@gmail.com To: toolserver-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Toolserver-l] Exemption to third party software rule
The Fearow wrote:
If we cant use Ventrilo, i'm going to try building a simple system for our purposes.
IMHO, That is the how it should be done in absence of libre alternatives.
-Matt
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On 10/7/07, The Fearow fearow00@hotmail.com wrote:
I'm going to try that; see if I can find some decent compression libraries for java. For now, i'll cancel my request.
http://jspeex.sourceforge.net/index.php
But doing low-latency audio over the net is non-trivial work... You may have an easier time writing a presence client that uses the game API for mumble.
On 10/6/07, Brandon Weeks bjweeks16@gmail.com wrote:
I think you misunderstand.
You assume too much.
Asterisk is a phone PBX that supports VoIP, it is not a internet chat application like Vent or TS.
Right. It's not the same, however it can be used for the same purposes. I'm familiar with what the Ventrilo software does.
No client is going to have a GUI anything like Vent, the clients used will be so called softphones that will dial the server. Channels are conference rooms in Asterisk, like office phone conference systems. Moderation can be done, but again the clients will have no GUI for this.
There are several web control panels for asterisk conference rooms which could be employed to provide moderation.
It's true using asterisk won't provide exactly the same thing. It would be something somewhat different with different problems and different positive points.
The plus points include avoiding creating a dependancy for propritary client software and propritary client operating systems, and a boat load of more flexibiltiy. Want the PBX to call you when an item on your watchlist changes? ... not hard to do. ;)
Asterisk can use TTS but not for what you want. People will need a mic (or phone) to use the system.
Sure it could: Just setup a web client that pipes text into channels via festiaval. It wouldn't be integrated with the softphone software, but that need not make it hard to use.
Is TTS really something that people want?
I'd rather have STT: Voice chat is attention monopolizing and slow.
For clients you need a softphone, Kiax is a good IAX softphone and X-lite is a good SIP softphone (or just google for "sip softphone" or "iax softphone").
Gregory Maxwell wrote:
Asterisk is a phone PBX that supports VoIP, it is not a internet chat application like Vent or TS.
Right. It's not the same, however it can be used for the same purposes. I'm familiar with what the Ventrilo software does.
Even assuming that Asterisk doesn't work as well as Ventrilo, it would still be better if we use a open solution, even if not as good as a proprietary one.
Snowolf
On 10/6/07, Snowolf snowolf@snowolf.eu wrote:
Gregory Maxwell wrote:
Asterisk is a phone PBX that supports VoIP, it is not a internet chat application like Vent or TS.
Right. It's not the same, however it can be used for the same purposes. I'm familiar with what the Ventrilo software does.
Even assuming that Asterisk doesn't work as well as Ventrilo, it would still be better if we use a open solution, even if not as good as a proprietary one.
There is also Mumble (http://mumble.sourceforge.net/) which is also an open solution which might be a closer match to what people are looking for with Ventrilo. Although it won't be as flexible as asterisk and may need a little kicking to do exactly what people want.
Assumptions are bad, you are right. :) I think Asterisk is a better solution myself, even more so for a open organization like Wikimedia. If anybody is interested in how it works I can setup a demo on my Asterisk server (not much bandwidth but with GSM it should be fine).
On 10/6/07, Gregory Maxwell gmaxwell@gmail.com wrote:
On 10/6/07, Brandon Weeks bjweeks16@gmail.com wrote:
I think you misunderstand.
You assume too much.
Asterisk is a phone PBX that supports VoIP, it is not a internet chat application like Vent or TS.
Right. It's not the same, however it can be used for the same purposes. I'm familiar with what the Ventrilo software does.
No client is going to have a GUI anything like Vent, the clients used will be so called softphones that will dial the server. Channels are conference rooms in Asterisk, like office phone conference systems. Moderation can be done, but again the clients will have no GUI for this.
There are several web control panels for asterisk conference rooms which could be employed to provide moderation.
It's true using asterisk won't provide exactly the same thing. It would be something somewhat different with different problems and different positive points.
The plus points include avoiding creating a dependancy for propritary client software and propritary client operating systems, and a boat load of more flexibiltiy. Want the PBX to call you when an item on your watchlist changes? ... not hard to do. ;)
Asterisk can use TTS but not for what you want. People will need a mic (or phone) to use the system.
Sure it could: Just setup a web client that pipes text into channels via festiaval. It wouldn't be integrated with the softphone software, but that need not make it hard to use.
Is TTS really something that people want?
I'd rather have STT: Voice chat is attention monopolizing and slow.
For clients you need a softphone, Kiax is a good IAX softphone and X-lite is a good SIP softphone (or just google for "sip softphone" or "iax softphone").
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