Hello all,
I just came back from a meeting with Denis Barthel. Denis is a long-time employee of Wikimedia Deutschland (WMDE) and works in the resort "Community". Denis was assigned to help to normalize the relationship between the Toolserver, WMDE and the Wikimedia Foundation (WMF); especially in the field of WikiLabs/Toollabs. His opinion is that if we all work together the move from the toolserver to Wikilabs can work. I still doubt that, but I agreed to give WMF a little more AGF (assume good faith). As you know the general meeting of WMDE decided that the WMF has to guarantee that the features of the toolserver exists in WikiLabs within 6 months (otherwise WMDE has to look for a way to continue the toolserver). Denis asked me to provide such a list of short-time-base. For this I will take our list [1] and convert the items into "needed features" (AFAIS most of the points are already features). When I am done with this I will send you the link and you all can add features I forgot. In the beginning of the new year WMDE will give WMF the list and then the 6 months start. WMDE (or WMDE together with WMF) plans to offer help for moving tools to WikiLabs in 2013 – during the 6 months and behind if WMF can provide all needed features. I rejected to help with that behind very basic actions (like answering questions by WMF-staff). So if you plan to move your stuff, please notice that I will not wait on the other side and catch you ;-). I also make it very clear that the only way to move a tool is by the author because you are the only persons who can adapt the code (the special case that another user plan to adopt an open-source-tool aside). To re-phrase it: I have no problem if somebody likes to move to WikiLabs now and I will help him or her as best as I can – but only on the toolserver-side. There will be no support by me (and I guess the same for Nosy) on the WikiLabs-side – there you have to work with the WMF-folks.
Just to let you known.
Sincerely, DaB.
P.S: Denis asked if there is a list of (important) tools. AFAIK we have none, but maybe we should find a way to build such a list in medium-term.
[1] http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Labs/Toolserver_features_wanted
Hello again, At Thursday 20 December 2012 22:18:13 DaB. wrote:
When I am done with this I will send you the link and you all can add features I forgot.
You can find the list at [1]. Please notice that this is not a wishing-list, so you can only add things that are already available on the toolserver (for example we have no git, so you can not request that WikiLabs has to have git as a needed feature).
Have fun.
Sincerely, DaB.
[1] http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Labs/Toolserver_features_needed_in_T...
On 20 December 2012 16:58, DaB. WP@daniel.baur4.info wrote:
P.S: Denis asked if there is a list of (important) tools. AFAIK we have none, but maybe we should find a way to build such a list in medium-term.
I created https://wiki.toolserver.org/submit/User:Valhallasw/enwikitslinks which has a list of the most linked-to URLS from enwiki to the toolserver (it also counts every parent folder, so http://toolserver.org/~geohack/geohack.php is counted for toolserver.org, toolserver.org/~geohack and toolserver.org/~geohack/geohack.php). The scripts to create them are listed below, so it should be easy to do for other wikis.
Additionally, it might be an idea to browse through https://wiki.toolserver.org/view/Category:Tools, https://wiki.toolserver.org/view/IRC_bots and https://wiki.toolserver.org/view/List_of_Wikimedia_bots.
Merlijn
On Thu, Dec 20, 2012 at 10:36 PM, Merlijn van Deen valhallasw@arctus.nl wrote:
it also counts every parent folder, so http://toolserver.org/~geohack/geohack.php is counted for toolserver.org, toolserver.org/~geohack and toolserver.org/~geohack/geohack.php
Then how come http://toolserver.org/~geohack/geohack.php has a higher number than http://toolserver.org/~geohack?
Petr Onderka [[en:User:Svick]]
On 21 December 2012 00:50, Petr Onderka gsvick@gmail.com wrote:
Then how come http://toolserver.org/~geohack/geohack.php has a higher number than http://toolserver.org/~geohack?
Oops. The full url was double-counted - a corrected version is at https://wiki.toolserver.org/view/User:Valhallasw/enwikitslinks .
Merlijn
On 21 December 2012 00:50, Petr Onderka gsvick@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Dec 20, 2012 at 10:36 PM, Merlijn van Deen valhallasw@arctus.nl wrote:
it also counts every parent folder, so http://toolserver.org/~geohack/geohack.php is counted for toolserver.org, toolserver.org/~geohack and toolserver.org/~geohack/geohack.php
Then how come http://toolserver.org/~geohack/geohack.php has a higher number than http://toolserver.org/~geohack?
Petr Onderka [[en:User:Svick]]
Toolserver-l mailing list (Toolserver-l@lists.wikimedia.org) https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/toolserver-l Posting guidelines for this list: https://wiki.toolserver.org/view/Mailing_list_etiquette
Are you sure that's corrected? It as links in the form http://org.toolserver./~user/tool
Hazard-SJ
________________________________ From: Merlijn van Deen valhallasw@arctus.nl To: Wikimedia Toolserver toolserver-l@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 4:24 AM Subject: Re: [Toolserver-l] My meeting with Denis Barthel today
On 21 December 2012 00:50, Petr Onderka gsvick@gmail.com wrote:
Then how come http://toolserver.org/~geohack/geohack.php has a higher number than http://toolserver.org/~geohack?
Oops. The full url was double-counted - a corrected version is at https://wiki.toolserver.org/view/User:Valhallasw/enwikitslinks .
Merlijn
On 21 December 2012 00:50, Petr Onderka gsvick@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Dec 20, 2012 at 10:36 PM, Merlijn van Deen valhallasw@arctus.nl wrote:
it also counts every parent folder, so http://toolserver.org/~geohack/geohack.php is counted for toolserver.org, toolserver.org/~geohack and toolserver.org/~geohack/geohack.php
Then how come http://toolserver.org/~geohack/geohack.php has a higher number than http://toolserver.org/~geohack?
Petr Onderka [[en:User:Svick]]
Toolserver-l mailing list (Toolserver-l@lists.wikimedia.org) https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/toolserver-l Posting guidelines for this list: https://wiki.toolserver.org/view/Mailing_list_etiquette
_______________________________________________ Toolserver-l mailing list (Toolserver-l@lists.wikimedia.org) https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/toolserver-l Posting guidelines for this list: https://wiki.toolserver.org/view/Mailing_list_etiquette
On 20/12/12 16:58, DaB. wrote:
Hello all,
I just came back from a meeting with Denis Barthel. Denis is a long-time employee of Wikimedia Deutschland (WMDE) and works in the resort "Community". Denis was assigned to help to normalize the relationship between the Toolserver, WMDE and the Wikimedia Foundation (WMF); especially in the field of WikiLabs/Toollabs. His opinion is that if we all work together the move from the toolserver to Wikilabs can work. I still doubt that, but I agreed to give WMF a little more AGF (assume good faith). As you know the general meeting of WMDE decided that the WMF has to guarantee that the features of the toolserver exists in WikiLabs within 6 months (otherwise WMDE has to look for a way to continue the toolserver). Denis asked me to provide such a list of short-time-base.
The toolserver allows propietary tools. This is required by some users and should thus be considered a toolserver feature (“i wrote code at work for my company and reuse parts for my bot framework. I have not the right to declare this code as open source which is needed by labs policy.” [1]).
Given that it has been stated from WMF side that closed-apps won't be supported, it seems impossible that “the features of the toolserver exists in WikiLabs”.
[1] Mail on Sep 26th by Merlissimo.
On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 2:21 PM, Platonides platonides@gmail.com wrote:
On 20/12/12 16:58, DaB. wrote:
Hello all,
I just came back from a meeting with Denis Barthel. Denis is a long-time employee of Wikimedia Deutschland (WMDE) and works in the resort
"Community".
Denis was assigned to help to normalize the relationship between the Toolserver, WMDE and the Wikimedia Foundation (WMF); especially in the
field of
WikiLabs/Toollabs. His opinion is that if we all work together the move
from
the toolserver to Wikilabs can work. I still doubt that, but I agreed to
give
WMF a little more AGF (assume good faith). As you know the general meeting of WMDE decided that the WMF has to
guarantee
that the features of the toolserver exists in WikiLabs within 6 months (otherwise WMDE has to look for a way to continue the toolserver). Denis
asked
me to provide such a list of short-time-base.
The toolserver allows propietary tools. This is required by some users and should thus be considered a toolserver feature (“i wrote code at work for my company and reuse parts for my bot framework. I have not the right to declare this code as open source which is needed by labs policy.” [1]).
Given that it has been stated from WMF side that closed-apps won't be supported, it seems impossible that “the features of the toolserver exists in WikiLabs”.
[1] Mail on Sep 26th by Merlissimo.
Am I the only one that sees [1] as a giant liability issue? He's using his company's IP, which opens toolserver up to lawsuits.
- Ryan
On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 02:42:01PM -0800, Ryan Lane wrote:
On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 2:21 PM, Platonides platonides@gmail.com wrote:
On 20/12/12 16:58, DaB. wrote:
Hello all,
I just came back from a meeting with Denis Barthel. Denis is a long-time employee of Wikimedia Deutschland (WMDE) and works in the resort
"Community".
Denis was assigned to help to normalize the relationship between the Toolserver, WMDE and the Wikimedia Foundation (WMF); especially in the
field of
WikiLabs/Toollabs. His opinion is that if we all work together the move
from
the toolserver to Wikilabs can work. I still doubt that, but I agreed to
give
WMF a little more AGF (assume good faith). As you know the general meeting of WMDE decided that the WMF has to
guarantee
that the features of the toolserver exists in WikiLabs within 6 months (otherwise WMDE has to look for a way to continue the toolserver). Denis
asked
me to provide such a list of short-time-base.
The toolserver allows propietary tools. This is required by some users and should thus be considered a toolserver feature (“i wrote code at work for my company and reuse parts for my bot framework. I have not the right to declare this code as open source which is needed by labs policy.” [1]).
Given that it has been stated from WMF side that closed-apps won't be supported, it seems impossible that “the features of the toolserver exists in WikiLabs”.
[1] Mail on Sep 26th by Merlissimo.
Am I the only one that sees [1] as a giant liability issue? He's using his company's IP, which opens toolserver up to lawsuits.
- Ryan
There is a difference between having permission from your employer to use the code for other purposes, and allowing the code to be open-sourced.
Regards,
André
toolserver-l@lists.wikimedia.org