Could someone new take a look at the Travel Guide proposal, which is now in final form? We should decide whether to recommend the Board reviews it at the upcoming Board meeting.
Also: what should our process be for running a site-wide notice for such a final-stage proposal? We should do it now for this one; even a few days of sitenotice would drive interest and attention. And lead to a mention in next week's signpost and Kurier. (dropping a line on the cafes / pumps of a few major languages, in this case including en, it, and de, might also be a good idea to include in our recommended process).
Regards, SJ
I will be looking at that proposal.
For the side-wide notice, I think that your idea is good, but leave a site-notice at the "backstage" (see main page) wikis too.
All the best, Ebe123
On 12-06-27 5:23 AM, "Samuel Klein" meta.sj@gmail.com wrote:
Could someone new take a look at the Travel Guide proposal, which is now in final form? We should decide whether to recommend the Board reviews it at the upcoming Board meeting.
Also: what should our process be for running a site-wide notice for such a final-stage proposal? We should do it now for this one; even a few days of sitenotice would drive interest and attention. And lead to a mention in next week's signpost and Kurier. (dropping a line on the cafes / pumps of a few major languages, in this case including en, it, and de, might also be a good idea to include in our recommended process).
Regards, SJ
I hope to have a look at the proposal in detail tonight. Yes, we can use the Global message delivery bot through Meta-Wiki to send the message - do we want it to go to all major languages, and if so do we want them to be translated into those languages too?
Thehelpfulone
On Wednesday, June 27, 2012, Etienne Beaule wrote:
I will be looking at that proposal.
For the side-wide notice, I think that your idea is good, but leave a site-notice at the "backstage" (see main page) wikis too.
All the best, Ebe123
On 12-06-27 5:23 AM, "Samuel Klein" <meta.sj@gmail.com javascript:;> wrote:
Could someone new take a look at the Travel Guide proposal, which is now in final form? We should decide whether to recommend the Board reviews it at the upcoming Board meeting.
Also: what should our process be for running a site-wide notice for such a final-stage proposal? We should do it now for this one; even a few days of sitenotice would drive interest and attention. And lead to a mention in next week's signpost and Kurier. (dropping a line on the cafes / pumps of a few major languages, in this case including en, it, and de, might also be a good idea to include in our recommended process).
Regards, SJ
Spcom mailing list Spcom@lists.wikimedia.org javascript:; https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/spcom
On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 11:28 AM, Thehelpfulone thehelpfulonewiki@gmail.com wrote:
I hope to have a look at the proposal in detail tonight. Yes, we can use the Global message delivery bot through Meta-Wiki to send the message - do we want it to go to all major languages, and if so do we want them to be translated into those languages too?
That would be lovely.
Yes, that would be a good precedent to set. It can be a very easy-to-translate message. We should try to get the intro paragraph of the proposal translated into major langs as well. Maybe we can wait a few days for initial translations and allow other translations to be sent out as they are done?
SJ
Thehelpfulone
On Wednesday, June 27, 2012, Etienne Beaule wrote:
I will be looking at that proposal.
For the side-wide notice, I think that your idea is good, but leave a site-notice at the "backstage" (see main page) wikis too.
All the best, Ebe123
On 12-06-27 5:23 AM, "Samuel Klein" meta.sj@gmail.com wrote:
Could someone new take a look at the Travel Guide proposal, which is now in final form? We should decide whether to recommend the Board reviews it at the upcoming Board meeting.
Also: what should our process be for running a site-wide notice for such a final-stage proposal? We should do it now for this one; even a few days of sitenotice would drive interest and attention. And lead to a mention in next week's signpost and Kurier. (dropping a line on the cafes / pumps of a few major languages, in this case including en, it, and de, might also be a good idea to include in our recommended process).
Regards, SJ
Spcom mailing list Spcom@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/spcom
-- Thehelpfulone http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Thehelpfulone
Spcom mailing list Spcom@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/spcom
On 27 June 2012 18:39, Samuel Klein meta.sj@gmail.com wrote:
That would be lovely.
I've reviewed all of the pages and comments, it appears to be a solid proposal with clear backing from a very large majority of all the users that have participated. The issue I see to have cropped up a few times is that of NPOV as the guide will be written with a "the Traveller always comes first" mentality. There have been strong arguments to show that, contrary to popular belief (!) the Wikimedia Foundation is *not *solely responsible for the English Wikipedia and as such the NPOV guidelines do not always apply to all of the Foundation's projects (and thus Wikipedia's Sister Projects), indeed Commons and Wikiversity do not have specific NPOV guidelines from what I read on the pages. However, that is not to say that we should allow the site to have completely biased articles or those that don't fall in line with our generally agreed BLP policies, pharaphrasing an example use, *"Poor customer service"* would be better than *"The staff were useless fools who should be left to rot in prison"*, - an extreme example to illustrate my point. Wikitravel already seems to have some guidelines for this, http://wikitravel.org/en/Wikitravel:Be_fair as an example.
I'm sure cross-wiki members are aware, all of our projects are subject to vandalism and spam. We also need to bear in mind that business owners are more likely to edit articles about their own businesses or deface those of competition, Wikitravel again has a policy for this, http://wikitravel.org/en/Wikitravel:Don%27t_tout, but we could consider putting some Abuse Filters or similar in place to help alleviate issues with this.
Overall, it is clear that there are people dedicated to making this "Travel Guide" (I know the name is still being decided on) a successful Sister Project, and as a member of this Committee, I am happy to endorse the proposal. I also note that if this proposal is approved by the Board, I am happy to volunteer with any of the administrative work including setting up the wiki, adding interwiki links in various places, reading over policies etc as I'm sure many of the other members of our community will be.
Yes, that would be a good precedent to set. It can be a very easy-to-translate message. We should try to get the intro paragraph of the proposal translated into major langs as well. Maybe we can wait a few days for initial translations and allow other translations to be sent out as they are done?
I know we're running a bit behind for this, but did you still want to get a message up and sent? It would be cutting it quite close but it might be an idea to see if there is any opposition from anyone, although I take into account that Village Pumps and/or Community Portals might not be as effective as we would like them to be for this purpose.
Thanks for the review.
On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 11:34 PM, Thehelpfulone thehelpfulonewiki@gmail.com wrote:
Wikitravel already seems to have some guidelines for this, http://wikitravel.org/en/Wikitravel:Be_fair as an example.
Yes, this seems like a decent starting point.
Wikitravel again has a policy for this, http://wikitravel.org/en/Wikitravel:Don%27t_tout, but we could consider putting some Abuse Filters or similar in place to help alleviate issues with this.
I agree -- and this is a problem that has been getting worse recently on all of our wikis. I don't know how to deal with it beyond a stronger emphasis on good anti-spam extensions, and helping people in those areas work better together.
I am happy to endorse the proposal. I also note that if this proposal is approved by the Board, I am happy to volunteer with any of the administrative work including setting up the wiki, adding interwiki links in various places, reading over policies etc as I'm sure many of the other members of our community will be.
That's good to hear. A number of other commentors like Guaka who have set up their own travel-related sites have said the same. Which is a good sign beyond general willingness to edit.
On sending out a message to get wider feedback:
Yes, that would be a good precedent to set. It can be a very easy-to-translate message. We should try to get the intro paragraph of the proposal translated into major langs as well. Maybe we can wait a few days for initial translations and allow other translations to be sent out as they are done?
I know we're running a bit behind for this, but did you still want to get a message up and sent? It would be cutting it quite close but it might be an idea to see if there is any opposition from anyone, although I take into account that Village Pumps and/or Community Portals might not be as effective as we would like them to be for this purpose.
Yes, we should do it. I think this should be a requirement before projects go live.
As long as this process is underway by Wikimania, it will alert attendees that this is happening -- there is already a meeting planned of current supporters, but this could make even better use of that time if any hard questions are raised in the next week. The Board can then weigh the input so far, and make a decision such as "if this gains community approval in a site-noticed RfC, we support making it a new sister project".
SJ
Dear all,
Can we organize an IRC chat sometime soon? I'm free this weekend and the start of next week.
It would be good to firm up general guidelines on how long discussions run, how they are translated, and how closed -- drawing from the last two times this happened and the current travel discussion. I'd like to get Board approval for the charter at our next IRC meeting; there was no time to discuss it at the Wikimania meeting.
And we should discuss how to wrap up and publish feedback on the current open proposals.
Warmly, SJ
On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 10:08 PM, Samuel Klein meta.sj@gmail.com wrote:
Thanks for the review.
On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 11:34 PM, Thehelpfulone thehelpfulonewiki@gmail.com wrote:
Wikitravel already seems to have some guidelines for this, http://wikitravel.org/en/Wikitravel:Be_fair as an example.
Yes, this seems like a decent starting point.
Wikitravel again has a policy for this, http://wikitravel.org/en/Wikitravel:Don%27t_tout, but we could consider putting some Abuse Filters or similar in place to help alleviate issues
with
this.
I agree -- and this is a problem that has been getting worse recently on all of our wikis. I don't know how to deal with it beyond a stronger emphasis on good anti-spam extensions, and helping people in those areas work better together.
I am happy to endorse the proposal. I also note that if this proposal is approved by the Board, I
am
happy to volunteer with any of the administrative work including setting
up
the wiki, adding interwiki links in various places, reading over policies etc as I'm sure many of the other members of our community will be.
That's good to hear. A number of other commentors like Guaka who have set up their own travel-related sites have said the same. Which is a good sign beyond general willingness to edit.
On sending out a message to get wider feedback:
Yes, that would be a good precedent to set. It can be a very easy-to-translate message. We should try to get the intro paragraph of the proposal translated into major langs as well. Maybe we can wait a few days for initial translations and allow other translations to be sent out as they are done?
I know we're running a bit behind for this, but did you still want to
get a
message up and sent? It would be cutting it quite close but it might be
an
idea to see if there is any opposition from anyone, although I take into account that Village Pumps and/or Community Portals might not be as effective as we would like them to be for this purpose.
Yes, we should do it. I think this should be a requirement before projects go live.
As long as this process is underway by Wikimania, it will alert attendees that this is happening -- there is already a meeting planned of current supporters, but this could make even better use of that time if any hard questions are raised in the next week. The Board can then weigh the input so far, and make a decision such as "if this gains community approval in a site-noticed RfC, we support making it a new sister project".
SJ
I am fine over the weekend or beginning following week, but I am on European time.
Cheers Yaroslav
On Thu, 9 Aug 2012 15:29:27 -0400, Samuel Klein wrote:
Dear all,
Can we organize an IRC chat sometime soon? Im free this weekend and the start of next week.
It would be good to firm up general guidelines on how long discussions run, how they are translated, and how closed -- drawing from the last two times this happened and the current travel discussion. Id like to get Board approval for the charter at our next IRC meeting; there was no time to discuss it at the Wikimania meeting.
And we should discuss how to wrap up and publish feedback on the current open proposals.
Warmly, SJ
Do any of these times work for people?
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Sister_Projects_Committee#Meeting_this_w...
On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 3:58 PM, Yaroslav M. Blanter putevod@mccme.ruwrote:
I am fine over the weekend or beginning following week, but I am on European time.
Cheers Yaroslav
On Thu, 9 Aug 2012 15:29:27 -0400, Samuel Klein wrote:
Dear all,
Can we organize an IRC chat sometime soon? Im free this weekend and
the start of next week.
It would be good to firm up general guidelines on how long discussions run, how they are translated, and how closed -- drawing from the last two times this happened and the current travel discussion. Id like
to get Board approval for the charter at our next IRC meeting; there was no time to discuss it at the Wikimania meeting.
And we should discuss how to wrap up and publish feedback on the current open proposals.
Warmly, SJ
______________________________**_________________ Spcom mailing list Spcom@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/spcomhttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/spcom
I have posted my reply on that page - I should be able to make any of those proposed times.
Thehelpfulone
Sent from my iPhone
On 9 Aug 2012, at 23:09, Samuel Klein meta.sj@gmail.com wrote:
Do any of these times work for people?
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Sister_Projects_Committee#Meeting_this_w...
On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 3:58 PM, Yaroslav M. Blanter putevod@mccme.ru wrote: I am fine over the weekend or beginning following week, but I am on European time.
Cheers Yaroslav
On Thu, 9 Aug 2012 15:29:27 -0400, Samuel Klein wrote: Dear all,
Can we organize an IRC chat sometime soon? Im free this weekend and
the start of next week.
It would be good to firm up general guidelines on how long discussions run, how they are translated, and how closed -- drawing from the last two times this happened and the current travel discussion. Id like
to get Board approval for the charter at our next IRC meeting; there was no time to discuss it at the Wikimania meeting.
And we should discuss how to wrap up and publish feedback on the current open proposals.
Warmly, SJ
Spcom mailing list Spcom@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/spcom
-- Samuel Klein @metasj w:user:sj +1 617 529 4266
Spcom mailing list Spcom@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/spcom