Dear Gabriele, dear all,
So you're ontologists. I suppose (hope) you enable researchers to produce
their articles as semantic content. But I'm curious on how you enable
fuzziness in knowledge production.
Would end point querying be available ?
I saw you put a F1000 reference in you email. I recall having worked on
that during my thesis.
(french) "*F1000Research* publie sous licence CC-BY et *requière* des *APC*
de *1000 USD HT* pour des articles *entre 2500 et 8000 mots*. 1000 USD de
plus sont exigés au delà de cette limite et il faut les contacter au delà
de 15000 mots." (my thesis, git repos linked in signature)
Would you grant us the pleasure of showing us the 'business model' of QEIOS
? I'd like to understand how this young firm
<https://opengovuk.com/company/10826076> of yours as reached the "9M active
researchers", "2.8M articles" and "1.5T *expenditure*" (and just for the
record, 1.5T, a trillion and a half of what ? USD, £ ?)
*M a mega, T a trillion, so should we guess for a F1000Research - like
business model, with Author Publication Charges (APC) about around
500(monetary unit) / article ?*
I let wikimedians do the math of *their* number of articles divided by
their total charges (understanding the limits in comparing 1st source and
encyclopedia production) to 'ponder' if F1000 and/or QEIOS rank as
"predatory publication" according to "raw cost" of sustaining a massive
publication structure. One should also take into account that many
universities grant "server" space for their 'workers' as well as archives
(for green OA as for grey production)...
You claim on your site that "Qeios
<https://www.qeios.com/read/definition/307> can be read 100% free by
anyone. There are no economic and technological barriers between knowledge
and people with Internet access.", but that does not tell us how it is
funded and about barriers in producing knowledge (not only reading others).
I still do not understand why researchers don't switch to wikimedian-like
productions. Or more precisely, I understand and strongly disagree on *why*
they continue feeding such a system of theirs. At least, I'd expect wide
margins of our social group to "fork" production-review-dissemination
systems (poorly funded universities or disciplines, strongly fundamentals
'math'-geeks, computer scientists working opensource-style etc.). I came to
the conclusion (while reading Bourdieu) that "academia" knows its (social)
reproduction patterns and quietly approve of it, and maintain it. I'm still
waiting for the critical mass.
In case the list is interested, I developed a protocol in my final thesis
chapter based on wikimedian space:
* descriptions in English (chinese and french) versions under common
<https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:JSL?uselang=fr>
* french project under wikiversité Journal Scientifique Libre
<https://fr.wikiversity.org/wiki/Projet:Journal_scientifique_libre>
BR
Rudy, RP87
*CordialementRudy Patard <rudy.patard(a)gmail.com>*
*{{u|RP87 <https://fr.wikiversity.org/wiki/Utilisateur:RP87>}}*
Coopérateur Optéos, commoner,
Développeur de techniques intermédiaires libres
& Chercheur in-terre-dépendant [hal
<https://cv.archives-ouvertes.fr/rudy-patard>] [youtube
<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfpCq9sbJZ9_cgH6NncD8Kg>]
On Wed, 14 Nov 2018 at 15:23, Gabriele - Qeios <gm(a)qeios.com> wrote:
> Dear Wikimedia OA list members,
>
> I’m Gabriele Marinello, co-founder along with Giorgio Bedogni and Alberto
> Bedogni of Qeios (https://www.qeios.com/about
> <https://share.polymail.io/v1/z/b/NWJlYzJmZTk1YjYz/Q858w9a4n1bhbpm-VBUtEqcG8…>).
> The reason I’m writing - to share with you what Qeios is about. Hopefully,
> you’ll find this interesting. It goes without saying, it’s about Open
> Science.
>
> We are striving hard to finally give researchers power over the entire
> knowledge life-cycle: production, quality check and sharing. The overall
> result is not just immensely positive for all the stakeholders in the
> process, but also, and most of all, for the output - knowledge. Free,
> better and more comparable/reproducible knowledge.
>
> In short.
>
> We do are applying the power of the community review, as many now do
> (fortunately), but to be faaaar more effective, we are doing this at 2
> different levels: the ingredients and the cake! The ingredients being the
> definitions of which an article, the cake, is made of. We firstly want the
> community to finally reach a consensus on what the best definitions to be
> used are when creating knowledge (a real “Definictionary” for researchers,
> so that they can all speak the same language!), and then let the same
> community openly review the output in terms of articles.
>
> Just to make you a quick example of an “ingredient”: think about the
> definition of “Quality of Life” (QoL), essential metric when evaluating
> almost any medical treatment (what is medicine fighting for?); there are
> thousands of different definitions of QoL… and anyone is using the one
> which is best suited to his/her p-value… in short, anyone is speaking the
> language which can benefit most to him/her.
>
> And a research article is made of hundreds of definitions… and for each
> there are dozens of variants... we can now easily understand how
> incomparable can be 2 articles that are trying to find an answer to the
> same question (e.g. what is the best treatment for Depression?), each being
> made of its unique mix of definitions... and it is precisely here that the
> indecision and inconclusiveness of the research arise: we are not able, in
> almost all cases, to say "treatment A is better than treatment B" simply
> because the 2 papers, the 2 studies, are not comparable!
>
> Articles and definitions are composed and published directly on the
> platform (and Qeios editor is satisfying like never before ; )). This is
> the most suitable way to take advantage of the new object “definition” in
> producing the best possible knowledge: the rating system built on
> definitions allows in fact researchers the assisted-choice of the best
> ingredients to use when composing their articles... and if now anyone can
> easily recognise the best definitions, articles will be automatically
> composed more homogeneously, which means more comparable/reproducible
> research.
>
> Researchers have the power, let’s use that power!
>
> For those who are not familiar with the open post-publication peer review
> (i.e. community review), I wouldn’t be able to give a better insight into
> its value than Andrew Gelman here:
> https://andrewgelman.com/2016/02/01/peer-review-make-no-damn-sense/
> <https://share.polymail.io/v1/z/b/NWJlYzJmZTk1YjYz/Q858w9a4n1bhbpm-VBUtEqcG8…>.
> To better understand what the guiding principles of the Qeios philosophy
> are, I would also suggest these articles by Jon Tennant et al. and Jason
> Priem: https://f1000research.com/articles/6-1151/v3
> <https://share.polymail.io/v1/z/b/NWJlYzJmZTk1YjYz/Q858w9a4n1bhbpm-VBUtEqcG8…>
> ; https://www.nature.com/articles/495437a
> <https://share.polymail.io/v1/z/b/NWJlYzJmZTk1YjYz/Q858w9a4n1bhbpm-VBUtEqcG8…>
> .
>
> In the words of Einstein: "Only the individual can think, and thereby
> create new values for society — nay, even set up new moral standards to
> which the life of the community conforms. Without creative, independently
> thinking and judging personalities the upward development of society is as
> unthinkable as the development of the individual personality without the
> nourishing soil of the community.” We defend the creativeness of the
> individual in the same way as we support the value that only the community
> can add.
>
> If you are curious, you can find a video and more information here:
> https://www.qeios.com/about
> <https://share.polymail.io/v1/z/b/NWJlYzJmZTk1YjYz/Q858w9a4n1bhbpm-VBUtEqcG8…>
>
> If then you are interested, you can sign up using an invitation link, here
> is Giorgio’s: https://www.qeios.com/invitation-to-join/researcher/314
> <https://share.polymail.io/v1/z/b/NWJlYzJmZTk1YjYz/Q858w9a4n1bhbpm-VBUtEqcG8…>
>
> If you have any questions/doubts or feedback, feel free to drop me an
> email at gm(a)qeios.com or call me at +39 380 8912791.
>
> Wishing you all a wonderful week,
>
> Gabriele
>
> —
> Gabriele Marinello
> Co-founder, Qeios Ltd
>
> 34, Old Barrack Yard, SW1X 7NP, London, UK
> UK +44 (0) 7426 853828
> IT +39 380 8912791
> gm(a)qeios.com
> www.qeios.com
>
Dear Gabriele,
- Thank you for the clarification. I forgot the order of magnitude
available from http://data.uis.unesco.org/# I apologize for this lack of
perspective of mine. A quote of UNESCO's source would be a minimum
requirement for a resource dedicated toward researchers I suppose.
- Precision on the business model (free basic, fee on "premium" etc.) could
be useful, (comparison to alternatives such as COS <https://cos.io/> too.
But there's still a question :
- How does it relate to Wikimedia ?
*Does QEIOS intend to disseminate under CC-BY-SA all content produced /
stored with its service ?*
And more specifically and "wikimedianly"
*Would applying semantic content (with semantic media wiki for instance) to
wikijournals (wikiversity), not be a wider strategy ?*
*BR*
*Rudy*
*CordialementRudy Patard <rudy.patard(a)gmail.com>*
*{{u|RP87 <https://fr.wikiversity.org/wiki/Utilisateur:RP87>}}*
Coopérateur Optéos, commoner,
Développeur de techniques intermédiaires libres
& Chercheur in-terre-dépendant [hal
<https://cv.archives-ouvertes.fr/rudy-patard>] [youtube
<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfpCq9sbJZ9_cgH6NncD8Kg>]
On Thu, 15 Nov 2018 at 19:37, Gabriele - Qeios <gm(a)qeios.com> wrote:
> Dear Rudy, dear all,
>
> thank you for your email.
>
> - Qeios’ text editor is a visual editor specifically designed for
> researchers.
>
> - “9M active researchers around the world”, “2.8M articles published per
> year” and “1.5T global R&D expenditure per year” [1.5 trillion PPP
> (purchasing power parity) dollars] are UNESCO figures about the scientific
> community, not Qeios’ numbers. We have just launched Qeios Beta and started
> inviting researchers. Qeios’ community counts now 120 researchers. We
> didn’t think those figures could be confusing. Thank you for the feedback.
>
> - So far, Qeios have been funded by co-founders’ personal savings + money
> from a couple of knowledge-enthusiasts. To make it self-sustainable, stable
> and allow for improvements, we are planning to apply a monthly fee of $10
> to access some services such as Qeios’ text editor and storage, depending
> on their usage. There won’t be advertisements, APCs or any other hidden
> expenses.
>
> We are just offering a possible solution and trying to make research
> better.
>
> Feedback of any type is much appreciated.
>
> Many thanks and all the best,
>
> Gabriele
>
> —
> Gabriele Marinello
> Co-founder, Qeios Ltd
>
> 34, Old Barrack Yard, SW1X 7NP, London, UK
> UK +44 (0) 7426 853828
> IT +39 380 8912791
> gm(a)qeios.com
> www.qeios.com
>
> On Wed, Nov 14th, 2018 at 7:21 PM, Rudy Patard <rudy.patard(a)gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Dear Gabriele, dear all,
>>
>> So you're ontologists. I suppose (hope) you enable researchers to produce
>> their articles as semantic content. But I'm curious on how you enable
>> fuzziness in knowledge production.
>> Would end point querying be available ?
>>
>> I saw you put a F1000 reference in you email. I recall having worked on
>> that during my thesis.
>> (french) "*F1000Research* publie sous licence CC-BY et *requière* des
>> *APC* de *1000 USD HT* pour des articles *entre 2500 et 8000 mots*. 1000
>> USD de plus sont exigés au delà de cette limite et il faut les contacter au
>> delà de 15000 mots." (my thesis, git repos linked in signature)
>> Would you grant us the pleasure of showing us the 'business model' of
>> QEIOS ? I'd like to understand how this young firm
>> <https://opengovuk.com/company/10826076> of yours as reached the "9M
>> active researchers", "2.8M articles" and "1.5T *expenditure*" (and just
>> for the record, 1.5T, a trillion and a half of what ? USD, £ ?)
>> *M a mega, T a trillion, so should we guess for a F1000Research - like
>> business model, with Author Publication Charges (APC) about around
>> 500(monetary unit) / article ?*
>> I let wikimedians do the math of *their* number of articles divided by
>> their total charges (understanding the limits in comparing 1st source and
>> encyclopedia production) to 'ponder' if F1000 and/or QEIOS rank as
>> "predatory publication" according to "raw cost" of sustaining a massive
>> publication structure. One should also take into account that many
>> universities grant "server" space for their 'workers' as well as archives
>> (for green OA as for grey production)...
>> You claim on your site that "Qeios
>> <https://www.qeios.com/read/definition/307> can be read 100% free by
>> anyone. There are no economic and technological barriers between knowledge
>> and people with Internet access.", but that does not tell us how it is
>> funded and about barriers in producing knowledge (not only reading others).
>>
>> I still do not understand why researchers don't switch to wikimedian-like
>> productions. Or more precisely, I understand and strongly disagree on
>> *why* they continue feeding such a system of theirs. At least, I'd
>> expect wide margins of our social group to "fork"
>> production-review-dissemination systems (poorly funded universities or
>> disciplines, strongly fundamentals 'math'-geeks, computer scientists
>> working opensource-style etc.). I came to the conclusion (while reading
>> Bourdieu) that "academia" knows its (social) reproduction patterns and
>> quietly approve of it, and maintain it. I'm still waiting for the critical
>> mass.
>>
>> In case the list is interested, I developed a protocol in my final thesis
>> chapter based on wikimedian space:
>> * descriptions in English (chinese and french) versions under common
>> <https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:JSL?uselang=fr>
>> * french project under wikiversité Journal Scientifique Libre
>> <https://fr.wikiversity.org/wiki/Projet:Journal_scientifique_libre>
>>
>> BR
>> Rudy, RP87
>>
>>
>> *CordialementRudy Patard <rudy.patard(a)gmail.com>*
>>
>> *{{u|RP87 <https://fr.wikiversity.org/wiki/Utilisateur:RP87>}}*
>>
>> Coopérateur Optéos, commoner,
>> Développeur de techniques intermédiaires libres
>> & Chercheur in-terre-dépendant [hal
>> <https://cv.archives-ouvertes.fr/rudy-patard>] [youtube
>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfpCq9sbJZ9_cgH6NncD8Kg>]
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 14 Nov 2018 at 15:23, Gabriele - Qeios <gm(a)qeios.com> wrote:
>>
>> Dear Wikimedia OA list members,
>>
>> I’m Gabriele Marinello, co-founder along with Giorgio Bedogni and Alberto
>> Bedogni of Qeios (https://www.qeios.com/about
>> <https://share.polymail.io/v1/z/b/NWJlYzJmZTk1YjYz/Q858w9a4n1bhbpm-VBUtEqcG8…>).
>> The reason I’m writing - to share with you what Qeios is about. Hopefully,
>> you’ll find this interesting. It goes without saying, it’s about Open
>> Science.
>>
>> We are striving hard to finally give researchers power over the entire
>> knowledge life-cycle: production, quality check and sharing. The overall
>> result is not just immensely positive for all the stakeholders in the
>> process, but also, and most of all, for the output - knowledge. Free,
>> better and more comparable/reproducible knowledge.
>>
>> In short.
>>
>> We do are applying the power of the community review, as many now do
>> (fortunately), but to be faaaar more effective, we are doing this at 2
>> different levels: the ingredients and the cake! The ingredients being the
>> definitions of which an article, the cake, is made of. We firstly want the
>> community to finally reach a consensus on what the best definitions to be
>> used are when creating knowledge (a real “Definictionary” for researchers,
>> so that they can all speak the same language!), and then let the same
>> community openly review the output in terms of articles.
>>
>> Just to make you a quick example of an “ingredient”: think about the
>> definition of “Quality of Life” (QoL), essential metric when evaluating
>> almost any medical treatment (what is medicine fighting for?); there are
>> thousands of different definitions of QoL… and anyone is using the one
>> which is best suited to his/her p-value… in short, anyone is speaking the
>> language which can benefit most to him/her.
>>
>> And a research article is made of hundreds of definitions… and for each
>> there are dozens of variants... we can now easily understand how
>> incomparable can be 2 articles that are trying to find an answer to the
>> same question (e.g. what is the best treatment for Depression?), each being
>> made of its unique mix of definitions... and it is precisely here that the
>> indecision and inconclusiveness of the research arise: we are not able, in
>> almost all cases, to say "treatment A is better than treatment B" simply
>> because the 2 papers, the 2 studies, are not comparable!
>>
>> Articles and definitions are composed and published directly on the
>> platform (and Qeios editor is satisfying like never before ; )). This is
>> the most suitable way to take advantage of the new object “definition” in
>> producing the best possible knowledge: the rating system built on
>> definitions allows in fact researchers the assisted-choice of the best
>> ingredients to use when composing their articles... and if now anyone can
>> easily recognise the best definitions, articles will be automatically
>> composed more homogeneously, which means more comparable/reproducible
>> research.
>>
>> Researchers have the power, let’s use that power!
>>
>> For those who are not familiar with the open post-publication peer review
>> (i.e. community review), I wouldn’t be able to give a better insight into
>> its value than Andrew Gelman here:
>> https://andrewgelman.com/2016/02/01/peer-review-make-no-damn-sense/
>> <https://share.polymail.io/v1/z/b/NWJlYzJmZTk1YjYz/Q858w9a4n1bhbpm-VBUtEqcG8…>.
>> To better understand what the guiding principles of the Qeios philosophy
>> are, I would also suggest these articles by Jon Tennant et al. and Jason
>> Priem: https://f1000research.com/articles/6-1151/v3
>> <https://share.polymail.io/v1/z/b/NWJlYzJmZTk1YjYz/Q858w9a4n1bhbpm-VBUtEqcG8…>
>> ; https://www.nature.com/articles/495437a
>> <https://share.polymail.io/v1/z/b/NWJlYzJmZTk1YjYz/Q858w9a4n1bhbpm-VBUtEqcG8…>
>> .
>>
>> In the words of Einstein: "Only the individual can think, and thereby
>> create new values for society — nay, even set up new moral standards to
>> which the life of the community conforms. Without creative, independently
>> thinking and judging personalities the upward development of society is as
>> unthinkable as the development of the individual personality without the
>> nourishing soil of the community.” We defend the creativeness of the
>> individual in the same way as we support the value that only the community
>> can add.
>>
>> If you are curious, you can find a video and more information here:
>> https://www.qeios.com/about
>> <https://share.polymail.io/v1/z/b/NWJlYzJmZTk1YjYz/Q858w9a4n1bhbpm-VBUtEqcG8…>
>>
>> If then you are interested, you can sign up using an invitation link,
>> here is Giorgio’s:
>> https://www.qeios.com/invitation-to-join/researcher/314
>> <https://share.polymail.io/v1/z/b/NWJlYzJmZTk1YjYz/Q858w9a4n1bhbpm-VBUtEqcG8…>
>>
>> If you have any questions/doubts or feedback, feel free to drop me an
>> email at gm(a)qeios.com or call me at +39 380 8912791.
>>
>> Wishing you all a wonderful week,
>>
>> Gabriele
>>
>> —
>> Gabriele Marinello
>> Co-founder, Qeios Ltd
>>
>> 34, Old Barrack Yard, SW1X 7NP, London, UK
>> UK +44 (0) 7426 853828
>> IT +39 380 8912791
>> gm(a)qeios.com
>> www.qeios.com
>>
>>
>