Hi folks,
Brian Wolff (Cc'ed) requested a few days ago for Wikimedia to sign the Cortado Java applet that we serve as a fallback to play video on browsers that do not support Ogg video. That's RT #7695.
From Brian's request: "Java has changed their default security settings
so that unsigned java applets (and even signed applets missing permissions attribute) generally don't run. In order to make this fallback work, we should sign the java applet."
A non-EV code-signing certificate costs something between $200-$500 per year but before we go ahead and consider making this expense, I'd like to open the discussion about Cortado's future.
I know Brion Vibber (also Cc'ed) has made a significant effort on implelementing Ogg/Ogv decoding functionality in Javascript and Flash with an end-goal of replacing Cortado, among others. We also had an impromptu discussion with Brion and a few others in Zurich (unfortunately with noone from multimedia, though), during which it was widely agreed that Java applets provide a very poor user experience in the modern web landscape.
What's the multimedia team's & community's opinion on that? Do you have any plans regarding Cortado and/or ogv.js? Do you think we should invest further into Cortado?
Thanks, Faidon
I would say that we at least should not keep it in limbo while we wait for alternatives. Either let's just pull the plug on it now and strip it out of everything, reducing the complexity of the current TMH code or sign it and commit to it for another year or something.
DJ
On 19 jun. 2014, at 18:20, Faidon Liambotis faidon@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi folks,
Brian Wolff (Cc'ed) requested a few days ago for Wikimedia to sign the Cortado Java applet that we serve as a fallback to play video on browsers that do not support Ogg video. That's RT #7695.
From Brian's request: "Java has changed their default security settings so that unsigned java applets (and even signed applets missing permissions attribute) generally don't run. In order to make this fallback work, we should sign the java applet."
A non-EV code-signing certificate costs something between $200-$500 per year but before we go ahead and consider making this expense, I'd like to open the discussion about Cortado's future.
I know Brion Vibber (also Cc'ed) has made a significant effort on implelementing Ogg/Ogv decoding functionality in Javascript and Flash with an end-goal of replacing Cortado, among others. We also had an impromptu discussion with Brion and a few others in Zurich (unfortunately with noone from multimedia, though), during which it was widely agreed that Java applets provide a very poor user experience in the modern web landscape.
What's the multimedia team's & community's opinion on that? Do you have any plans regarding Cortado and/or ogv.js? Do you think we should invest further into Cortado?
Thanks, Faidon
Multimedia mailing list Multimedia@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/multimedia
Personally I think we should sign the applet, and invest in it for about year, pending ogv.js being ready and integrated. Cortado may not be a great user experience, but it beats no user experience at all.
Looking around on the internet, the cheaper code signing certs cost about $180 year. This seems like a reasonable option for now, with hopefully ogv.js being integrated around the time of "kaltura player upgrades" [1], which I think is supposed to happen late this year.
[1] http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/multimedia/2014-June/000580.html
--bawolff
On 6/19/14, Derk-Jan Hartman d.j.hartman@gmail.com wrote:
I would say that we at least should not keep it in limbo while we wait for alternatives. Either let's just pull the plug on it now and strip it out of everything, reducing the complexity of the current TMH code or sign it and commit to it for another year or something.
DJ
On 19 jun. 2014, at 18:20, Faidon Liambotis faidon@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi folks,
Brian Wolff (Cc'ed) requested a few days ago for Wikimedia to sign the Cortado Java applet that we serve as a fallback to play video on browsers that do not support Ogg video. That's RT #7695.
From Brian's request: "Java has changed their default security settings so that unsigned java applets (and even signed applets missing permissions attribute) generally don't run. In order to make this fallback work, we should sign the java applet."
A non-EV code-signing certificate costs something between $200-$500 per year but before we go ahead and consider making this expense, I'd like to open the discussion about Cortado's future.
I know Brion Vibber (also Cc'ed) has made a significant effort on implelementing Ogg/Ogv decoding functionality in Javascript and Flash with an end-goal of replacing Cortado, among others. We also had an impromptu discussion with Brion and a few others in Zurich (unfortunately with noone from multimedia, though), during which it was widely agreed that Java applets provide a very poor user experience in the modern web landscape.
What's the multimedia team's & community's opinion on that? Do you have any plans regarding Cortado and/or ogv.js? Do you think we should invest further into Cortado?
Thanks, Faidon
Multimedia mailing list Multimedia@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/multimedia
Hi Faidon,
Thanks for reaching out to us about this opportunity.
I can’t speak to the future of Cortado, and defer to folks with more technical expertise to discuss its long-term potential.
But at this point in time, I would welcome any practical solution that can enable video playback for over 100 million users who now cannot view videos on our sites.
According to Brian, we already have Cortado up and running, and it can support video playback for about 80% of people who use Safari or IE on desktop machines. That is significant, even if it’s not the ideal long-term solution.
So I would recommend that we spend the couple hundred dollars required for the "signed" flag to work in modern browsers. It’s a small price to pay for enabling videos on our sites for these users, even if we switch to another solution down the line.
What do others think?
Fabrice
On Jun 19, 2014, at 9:20 AM, Faidon Liambotis faidon@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi folks,
Brian Wolff (Cc'ed) requested a few days ago for Wikimedia to sign the Cortado Java applet that we serve as a fallback to play video on browsers that do not support Ogg video. That's RT #7695.
From Brian's request: "Java has changed their default security settings so that unsigned java applets (and even signed applets missing permissions attribute) generally don't run. In order to make this fallback work, we should sign the java applet."
A non-EV code-signing certificate costs something between $200-$500 per year but before we go ahead and consider making this expense, I'd like to open the discussion about Cortado's future.
I know Brion Vibber (also Cc'ed) has made a significant effort on implelementing Ogg/Ogv decoding functionality in Javascript and Flash with an end-goal of replacing Cortado, among others. We also had an impromptu discussion with Brion and a few others in Zurich (unfortunately with noone from multimedia, though), during which it was widely agreed that Java applets provide a very poor user experience in the modern web landscape.
What's the multimedia team's & community's opinion on that? Do you have any plans regarding Cortado and/or ogv.js? Do you think we should invest further into Cortado?
Thanks, Faidon
Multimedia mailing list Multimedia@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/multimedia
_______________________________
Fabrice Florin Product Manager Wikimedia Foundation
According to Brian, we already have Cortado up and running, and it can support video playback for about 80% of people who use Safari or IE on desktop machines. That is significant, even if it’s not the ideal long-term solution.
Just for reference, the 80% number comes from http://www.w3resource.com/browsers/java-support.php , which claims 84.4% of their users have java enabled. This should be considered only a rough estimate as that's site's visitors may be a different demographic than ours, and java installation is probably not evenly distributed across platforms. Nonetheless, probably a significant amount of users in the IE/safari category have java enabled.
Based on http://stats.wikimedia.org/wikimedia/squids/SquidReportClients.htm , 84% of desktop sfari/IE is about 12% of our user base in total.
--bawolff
On Wednesday, June 25, 2014, Fabrice Florin fflorin@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi Faidon,
Thanks for reaching out to us about this opportunity.
I can’t speak to the future of Cortado, and defer to folks with more technical expertise to discuss its long-term potential.
Long term, Cortado is dead; some of its former maintainers are helping me with ogv.js. :)
All we need from it is a short term packaging fix that will get it working again.
But at this point in time, I would welcome any practical solution that can enable video playback for over 100 million users who now cannot view videos on our sites.
According to Brian, we already have Cortado up and running, and it can support video playback for about 80% of people who use Safari or IE on desktop machines. That is significant, even if it’s not the ideal long-term solution.
So I would recommend that we spend the couple hundred dollars required for the "signed" flag to work in modern browsers. It’s a small price to pay for enabling videos on our sites for these users, even if we switch to another solution down the line.
What do others think?
I tend to agree that we should go ahead and fix the signature. Should be a quick fix, and lets us work on the other solutions as they're ready.
We're still not sure how easy it'll be to integrate ogv.js into TMH, or if it'll have to depend on the Kaltura upgrade, and the Flash version needs more tuning to work on the old IE versions that the Java applet covers now.
-- brion
Fabrice
On Jun 19, 2014, at 9:20 AM, Faidon Liambotis <faidon@wikimedia.org javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','faidon@wikimedia.org');> wrote:
Hi folks,
Brian Wolff (Cc'ed) requested a few days ago for Wikimedia to sign the Cortado Java applet that we serve as a fallback to play video on browsers that do not support Ogg video. That's RT #7695.
From Brian's request: "Java has changed their default security settings so that unsigned java applets (and even signed applets missing permissions attribute) generally don't run. In order to make this fallback work, we should sign the java applet."
A non-EV code-signing certificate costs something between $200-$500 per year but before we go ahead and consider making this expense, I'd like to open the discussion about Cortado's future.
I know Brion Vibber (also Cc'ed) has made a significant effort on implelementing Ogg/Ogv decoding functionality in Javascript and Flash with an end-goal of replacing Cortado, among others. We also had an impromptu discussion with Brion and a few others in Zurich (unfortunately with noone from multimedia, though), during which it was widely agreed that Java applets provide a very poor user experience in the modern web landscape.
What's the multimedia team's & community's opinion on that? Do you have any plans regarding Cortado and/or ogv.js? Do you think we should invest further into Cortado?
Thanks, Faidon
Multimedia mailing list Multimedia@lists.wikimedia.org javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','Multimedia@lists.wikimedia.org'); https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/multimedia
Fabrice Florin Product Manager Wikimedia Foundation
On Jul 8, 2014, at 12:34 AM, Brion Vibber bvibber@wikimedia.org wrote:
We're still not sure how easy it'll be to integrate ogv.js into TMH, or if it'll have to depend on the Kaltura upgrade, and the Flash version needs more tuning to work on the old IE versions that the Java applet covers now.
The Kaltura player has a relatively robust “playback interface” abstraction since we swap in different runtimes for a various of reasons. In addition to the ogv.js for webviews, Kaltura player includes native bridges; which could let us integrate something like the other cool work Brion has done for native mobile ogg support: https://brionv.com/log/2014/07/05/ogvkit-native-ogg-vorbistheora-playing-on-... ( maybe gstreamer instead of home grown av sync as Brion outlined )
A quick look at the architecture diagram can help illustrate the idea: http://knowledge.kaltura.com/kaltura-player-v2-toolkit-theme-skin-guide#Kalt...
—michael
multimedia@lists.wikimedia.org