This is the sort of discussion that should be had on-wiki, just to arrive
at some clarity about the fundamental issues.
I have raised the topic on Jimbo's talk page.
Andreas
On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 1:01 PM, Thomas Morton
<morton.thomas(a)googlemail.com>wrote;wrote:
On 3 October 2012 12:51, Thomas Dalton
<thomas.dalton(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On 3 October 2012 12:26, Thomas Morton
<morton.thomas(a)googlemail.com>
wrote:
(starting a new topic as this is a little wider
than the original
thread,
hope that is OK)
I think it is clear that just letting OTRS handle
it doesn't
really work and people need more support than just an email address
they can send things to and get back a lecture on Wikipedia policy and
procedure,
Well, respectfully I disagree - at least in part.
OTRS very often works. It is because of the work of OTRS volunteers
there
aren't more news articles featuring prominent
people who have had
little or
no success with Wikipedia!
Sorry, I shouldn't have said it doesn't work. I should have said it
often doesn't work. It often does, but there are plenty of times when
it doesn't. Don't forget the large number of cases which don't even
get as far as someone emailing OTRS because they don't know how to do
that.
Sure, that's an issue. I see where you are coming from (the Roth issue in
large part stemmed from the fact that they ended up contacting the wrong
place entirely!).
and judging by the number of attempts we see at setting up
for-profit consultancy services for this, it would appear there is a
market. (I think there is probably a market of companies and
individuals that would be happier paying even if they could get the
same thing done for free, just because they feel more confident in a
paid service.)
The problem with this approach is that if you enter into a monetary
contract with someone they have more expectation of a result. I'm not
shouting down the idea outright - but it is much harder to turn around
to
someone and say "I'm sorry, but this
content can't be changed" when
they are
paying you to do that... :D
It's a issue, certainly, but as long as you are completely clear about
what it is you are doing I think it can work. The key would be to have
an initial meeting where the client explains what it is they want to
achieve and you tell them whether that is actually within Wikipedia
policy. If it isn't, then you don't take it any further. You would
only actually try and get changes made if you think there is a good
chance of success. (Whether than initial meeting would be chargable or
not, I don't know - that's a detail to be worked out.)
Yes, I suppose.
It's not so easy as that, though, speaking as an OTRS regular. One of two
things can happen with regularity; a seemingly innocuous issue gets blown
up by editors for no apparent reason, which leads to dramaz. Or, the
initial concerns appear quite OK, but once you get onboard discussing with
them it turns out they are more complex and fundamental.
I'm also concerned that the target market consists of mainly two types of
client:
* One that wants to rewrite large portions of the article
* One that wants very minor issues fixed ("Please correct this logo",
"Our
CEO has changed", "that source refers to someone else!") etc.
Having an upfront meeting with the latter is not worth it, as this will
likely take longer than resolving the issue. And the former represents the
minefield I mentioned.
I also suspect that the En.Wiki community would reject anyone being able
to do any substantive work on articles under such a scheme.
That sort of thing could be done as well, but I
doubt many people want
to learn how to navigate the minefield that is Wikipedia just in order
to fix a few errors in an article. They just want to pay someone to
sort it out.
I am actually thinking along those lines... I'm not talking about editor
recruitment type things.
But more "hi everyone, these are the Wikipedia policies, and why we have
them" and then let them loose with a room full of editors who can sit and
work through specific issues. With the benefit that everyone is at educated
in at least the rudiments of policy.
Tom
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