[Gendergap] Gendergap Digest, Vol 9, Issue 64
Migdia Chinea
migdia.chinea at gmail.com
Tue Oct 25 01:12:55 UTC 2011
I think that some people may have a police state mentality around these
parts. But, of course, there are wonderful diligent people, too. I enjoy
looking up odd subjects that help in my research -- whether college dating
or hazing.
Kind regards, Mig --
On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 6:00 PM, <gendergap-request at lists.wikimedia.org>wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Am I crazy? (B?ria Lima)
> 2. Re: Am I crazy? (Nathan)
> 3. Re: Am I crazy? (Daniel and Elizabeth Case)
> 4. Re: Am I crazy? (Daniel and Elizabeth Case)
> 5. Re: Am I crazy? (Nathan)
> 6. Re: Am I crazy? (Lady of Shalott)
> 7. Re: Am I crazy? (Sue Gardner)
> 8. Re: Am I crazy? (Gillian White)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2011 19:12:49 +0100
> From: B?ria Lima <beria.lima at wikimedia.pt>
> Subject: Re: [Gendergap] Am I crazy?
> To: fredbaud at fairpoint.net, Increasing female participation in
> Wikimedia projects <gendergap at lists.wikimedia.org>
> Message-ID:
> <CAA2XHjBUR3v-KNc2T4BBde12Tju0rkyL3XmW7LroLKS+338F3w at mail.gmail.com
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> >
> > *It would not have to be a gender related issue for this to occur.*
> >
>
> Fred is right in that point. I'm not a gender editor (my articles almost
> never have problems with gender issues), however, the topic is one where
> you
> can find the most biased people on earth: Religion.
>
> And I would say you case was not the worst one, the worst case i can
> imagine
> (and already happened with me several times) is to remove biased info (or
> include NPOV info) in an article about a religion / god / dogma who is
> watched by some believer of the same god / religion. ;)
> _____
> *B?ria Lima*
> Wikimedia Portugal <http://wikimedia.pt>
> (351) 963 953 042
>
> *Imagine um mundo onde ? dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter
> livre
> acesso ao somat?rio de todo o conhecimento humano. ? isso o que estamos a
> fazer.*
>
>
> On 24 October 2011 18:54, Fred Bauder <fredbaud at fairpoint.net> wrote:
>
> > > I've never particularly felt the "boys club" atmosphere on Wikipedia
> > > that apparently deters some women. However, I am very angry right now.
> > > I tried to add [[date rape]] as a "see also" link to the very
> > > incomplete article [[college dating]]. The relevance seemed obvious to
> > > me. It was removed by two separate people, and when I took it to the
> > > talk page, its relevance was questioned, and I was told to "prove it"
> > > because it was "obvious to whom?" Fine. I've proven it with sourcing,
> > > adding a small section. I think that needed to happen anyway, but I'm
> > > infuriated that I could not just add a see also link to it and tell
> > > the students who are really working on the article that a section
> > > needed adding. (The people who removed the link are seasoned
> > > Wikipedians, not members of the class developing the article.) Am I
> > > crazy?
> > >
> > > LadyofShalott
> >
> > No, that is the usual reaction of biased editors of all persuasions, to
> > throw their mind out of gear, when obvious conclusions which contradict
> > their bias are advanced.
> >
> > It would not have to be a gender related issue for this to occur.
> >
> > Fred
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Gendergap mailing list
> > Gendergap at lists.wikimedia.org
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
> >
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2011 14:13:52 -0400
> From: Nathan <nawrich at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Gendergap] Am I crazy?
> To: Increasing female participation in Wikimedia projects
> <gendergap at lists.wikimedia.org>
> Message-ID:
> <CALKX9dQuYM_3jyBfPSuNw7M3fkwrMdPeCsegvFPWXYXNZOfWDw at mail.gmail.com
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> I question whether "college dating" deserves an article to begin with.
> If it does, which the text of the article doesn't at all establish,
> the current article has a pretty fatal case of systemic bias.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2011 14:16:10 -0400
> From: "Daniel and Elizabeth Case" <dancase at frontiernet.net>
> Subject: Re: [Gendergap] Am I crazy?
> To: "Increasing female participation in Wikimedia projects"
> <gendergap at lists.wikimedia.org>
> Message-ID: <6BC79C0C9DE44D779B5156A841AC35A9 at Dcase102796>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nathan
> Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 2:13 PM
> To: Increasing female participation in Wikimedia projects
> Subject: Re: [Gendergap] Am I crazy?
>
> I question whether "college dating" deserves an article to begin with.
> If it does, which the text of the article doesn't at all establish,
> the current article has a pretty fatal case of systemic bias.
>
>
> On the surface I tend to agree, but then I read the AfD:
>
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/College_dating
>
> Daniel Case
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2011 14:17:46 -0400
> From: "Daniel and Elizabeth Case" <dancase at frontiernet.net>
> Subject: Re: [Gendergap] Am I crazy?
> To: "Increasing female participation in Wikimedia projects"
> <gendergap at lists.wikimedia.org>
> Message-ID: <5EA72D57C76A4108AA835C2356056251 at Dcase102796>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
>
>
> Well, it's not rectified yet. The one source I've given thus far is
> not enough apparently. I have to add more.
>
> Already done:
>
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/1992/10/25/nyregion/new-policy-is-aimed-at-preventing-date-rape-on-campuses.html
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=College_dating&diff=457185120&oldid=457178405
>
> Daniel Case
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2011 14:24:15 -0400
> From: Nathan <nawrich at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Gendergap] Am I crazy?
> To: Increasing female participation in Wikimedia projects
> <gendergap at lists.wikimedia.org>
> Message-ID:
> <CALKX9dReBo2wwjU3n45Qi6f7xQru8Ob_=LidSRmPpDjMovS-Rg at mail.gmail.com
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Not convinced by the AfD. "Snow" kept after less than 24 hours, based
> on one substantial vote and a bunch of "what he said" votes that
> didn't address whether "college dating" is so distinct a phenomena
> that it needs to be treated separately from [[dating]]. A search
> string of +college +dating is obviously going to return a lot of
> results, that doesn't prove notability - and notability isn't the only
> concern.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2011 14:25:30 -0400
> From: Lady of Shalott <ladyofshalott.wp at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Gendergap] Am I crazy?
> To: Increasing female participation in Wikimedia projects
> <gendergap at lists.wikimedia.org>
> Message-ID:
> <CACv6LKfC6GPuSpDVmmQ8qGOC-LQ_JDUa4JA4hroCoYdEgoJQxg at mail.gmail.com
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Thanks! Does someone here have access to the full article at
> <http://gas.sagepub.com/content/3/4/457.short>?
>
> LoS
>
> On 10/24/11, Daniel and Elizabeth Case <dancase at frontiernet.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Well, it's not rectified yet. The one source I've given thus far is
> > not enough apparently. I have to add more.
> >
> > Already done:
> >
> >
> >
> http://www.nytimes.com/1992/10/25/nyregion/new-policy-is-aimed-at-preventing-date-rape-on-campuses.html
> >
> >
> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=College_dating&diff=457185120&oldid=457178405
> >
> > Daniel Case
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Gendergap mailing list
> > Gendergap at lists.wikimedia.org
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2011 12:11:44 -0700
> From: Sue Gardner <sgardner at wikimedia.org>
> Subject: Re: [Gendergap] Am I crazy?
> To: Increasing female participation in Wikimedia projects
> <gendergap at lists.wikimedia.org>
> Message-ID:
> <CAGZ0=LP7uvTuG5uxGq_GtaJZ-ryCvz6yXs0dr=si0hSgEnNW=w at mail.gmail.com
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Yeah, personally I think the subject is notable. There has been tons
> of academic research and popular history written about the history of
> dating, college dating, the invention of the 'teenager,' etc. Even
> just within the United States.
>
> I think I did a radio series on this once -- IIRC, Beth Bailey was a
> really great source. She wrote this fascinating book:
> http://www.amazon.com/Front-Porch-Back-Seat-Twentieth-Century/dp/0801839351
> .
> Susan J. Douglas was good too, as well as Stephanie Coontz and Barbara
> Ehrenreich. They are all American, though. Lots has been written about
> the UK too, but I'm not sure about other cultures/countries.
>
> Thanks,
> Sue
>
>
> --
> ?Sue Gardner
> Executive Director
> Wikimedia Foundation
>
> 415 839 6885 office
> 415 816 9967 cell
>
> Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in
> the sum of all knowledge.? Help us make it a reality!
>
> http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate
>
>
>
> On 24 October 2011 11:16, Daniel and Elizabeth Case
> <dancase at frontiernet.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Nathan
> > Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 2:13 PM
> > To: Increasing female participation in Wikimedia projects
> > Subject: Re: [Gendergap] Am I crazy?
> >
> > I question whether "college dating" deserves an article to begin with.
> > If it does, which the text of the article doesn't at all establish,
> > the current article has a pretty fatal case of systemic bias.
> >
> >
> > ? ?On the surface I tend to agree, but then I read the AfD:
> >
> > ? ?
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/College_dating
> >
> > Daniel Case
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Gendergap mailing list
> > Gendergap at lists.wikimedia.org
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2011 12:00:55 +1100
> From: Gillian White <whiteghost.ink at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Gendergap] Am I crazy?
> To: Increasing female participation in Wikimedia projects
> <gendergap at lists.wikimedia.org>
> Message-ID:
> <CAMrpCZUU0PNGiEADof9RtK3upeJhOSJ3r-Q9uZAgWWJBSDZmWw at mail.gmail.com
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Apart from any content problems, the article had no context. It was not
> linked to what should be regarded as its parents. And that lack of
> coherence, combined with its specific terminology made it largely
> incomprehensible to people unfamiliar with American educational systems,
> aside from its social practices. For example, it is by no means universal
> that students live in residential colleges while attending university. I
> had
> a go at giving it some context so readers can go from one article to the
> next (specifically, from "courtship" to "dating" to "college dating") but I
> agree that it would be better if it was renamed, as the issues that are
> distinctive to dating in college/university could then be developed.
>
> Gillian
>
> On 25 October 2011 06:11, Sue Gardner <sgardner at wikimedia.org> wrote:
>
> > Yeah, personally I think the subject is notable. There has been tons
> > of academic research and popular history written about the history of
> > dating, college dating, the invention of the 'teenager,' etc. Even
> > just within the United States.
> >
> > I think I did a radio series on this once -- IIRC, Beth Bailey was a
> > really great source. She wrote this fascinating book:
> >
> http://www.amazon.com/Front-Porch-Back-Seat-Twentieth-Century/dp/0801839351
> > .
> > Susan J. Douglas was good too, as well as Stephanie Coontz and Barbara
> > Ehrenreich. They are all American, though. Lots has been written about
> > the UK too, but I'm not sure about other cultures/countries.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Sue
> >
> >
> > --
> > ?Sue Gardner
> > Executive Director
> > Wikimedia Foundation
> >
> > 415 839 6885 office
> > 415 816 9967 cell
> >
> > Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in
> > the sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality!
> >
> > http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate
> >
> >
> >
> > On 24 October 2011 11:16, Daniel and Elizabeth Case
> > <dancase at frontiernet.net> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Nathan
> > > Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 2:13 PM
> > > To: Increasing female participation in Wikimedia projects
> > > Subject: Re: [Gendergap] Am I crazy?
> > >
> > > I question whether "college dating" deserves an article to begin with.
> > > If it does, which the text of the article doesn't at all establish,
> > > the current article has a pretty fatal case of systemic bias.
> > >
> > >
> > > On the surface I tend to agree, but then I read the AfD:
> > >
> > >
> >
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/College_dating
> > >
> > > Daniel Case
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Gendergap mailing list
> > > Gendergap at lists.wikimedia.org
> > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Gendergap mailing list
> > Gendergap at lists.wikimedia.org
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
> >
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> End of Gendergap Digest, Vol 9, Issue 64
> ****************************************
>
--
Migdia & Cicero & Ulla & Tullia-Zoe & Clodia & Aurelius & Cato the Younger
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