>
> A2K providing support to the community (Wikimedia India included) in general is a
good practice. Maybe this is the right time for the community to come forward to share
what they feel should be the right way (or ways) A2K could follow while supporting someone
from Wikimedia India. The way they support the individual Wikimedians (from the
scholarship waitlist) seems fairly simple and straightforward. Supporting WMIN lies in a
grey area because one individual from 7 people gets selected. The consensus process
involved in that process need to be more transparent.
Yes ! Definitely. Transparency is the key. I am glad that CIS-A2K stood firm in
apologising. This is a very welcome step. However as pointed out in my previous mail,
supporting a scholarship reciepient in waiting and a speaker are two different subjects. I
am not sure if judgements such as 'grey areas' should be made but Yes it calls for
a discussion on how things should work upon.
The consensus process is also something that calls for a discussion. From informing the
team members to taking consensus, the community's will on this should be recorded with
the Chapter. It is nice to hear that EC was copied in the request mail and aderance to
transparecy is being made.
>
> Subhashish
P.S : I may be slow in responses to future mails for the next 6 days. I am no travel.
Abhinav
>
>> On Aug 5, 2018, at 2:27 PM, Bodhisattwa Mandal
<bodhisattwa.rgkmc(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I was expecting a reply from WMIN.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Bodhisattwa
>>
>>> On Sun, 5 Aug 2018, 14:25 Abhinav srivastava, <abhinav619(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
>>> Hello Bodhisattva,
>>>
>>> Please allow me to respond to your confusions. Responses in line.
>>>
>>> Again, as stated in my first mail on the thread, you are making too many
value-judgments with un-friendly tone.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Sun, Aug 5, 2018 at 12:27 PM Bodhisattwa Mandal
<bodhisattwa.rgkmc(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi Yohann,
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for your reply, much appreciated.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have read your previous e-mail very carefully, without missing a single
word.
>>>>
>>>> My question still stands. Many apologies, if I have not been able to make
it clear in my previous mails, so I am adding some more perspective.
>>>>
>>>> 1) Chairpersons meeting in Wikimania is informal. It's not related to
the main program of Wikimania. For example, like many other informal meetups, there
happens to be a steward meetup every year in Wikimania. Now, if one steward, who have not
received scholarship, is invited in the meetup, then he/she will have to spend his own
money to attend the meeting. Same principle lies here, participation for chairpersons
meetup is not eligibility criteria to gain a scholarship as it is an informal meetup. Can
you please provide some documentation, where it is written that scholarship would be
provided to attend informal meetups? Because if that is true, everyone will find someone
to invite themselves to attend informal meetups in Wikimania and ask for scholarship from
WMIN from next year.
>>>
>>> If you check the agenda section, WMIN President gave a talk on Conflict
Resolution, this is followed my summary in the notes. When there are so many conflicts in
Wikimedia communities across the globle, someone from India is invited to put this
theories towards resolution. This is a welcome step. From Notes to his Summary Talk to how
this will be carried forward for future course, every thing is documented.
>>>
>>> He did not simply attend the meeting as a participant or representing
Wikimedia India, he was a lead on the 3rd point of the Agenda which is Conflcit
Resolution. Everything on it is documented.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2) I have checked and rechecked the minute[1] and event page[2] of
chairpersons meeting of Wikimedia Conference, Berlin. Nowhere there is a proof that he has
attended that meeting. So, I have doubt that he was invited at all because there is no
point to invite someone who didn't attend the meeting previously even he was present
there. Can you provide the documentation of his invitation?
>>>>
>>>> [1]
https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/p/chairpersons_meeting_April_20%2C_2018
>>>> [2]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Affiliate_Chairpersons_meeting_April_20_2018
>>>>
>>> I am sure when Wikimedia India President is invited to give a talk on a
defined Agenda, 'Conflict Resolution' and CIS-A2K is approving his request, he
must on record have recieved an invitation.
>>>
>>> It cannot be that without an invitation someone would travel so far. Also,
please remember, unlike WMF staff or CIS-A2K, when someone from Wikimedia India has to
travel, he has to forgoe his personal paid holidays. WMF staff or CIS-A2K travel abroad
calling it 'On Work'.
>>>> 3) As I said earlier, even if I believe that he was invited, already
there were 2 EC members (Viswa and Krishna) present in Wikimania who went there with full
scholarship. You can check that president's participation is not at all mandatory. Why
WMIN didn't told them to attend the informal meeting of chairpersons on behalf of the
Chapter? Are they considered unfit or incapable to attend the meeting, if yes, why so?
>>>>
>>> This is about merit of the particular individual. This has nothing to do with
the other Two EC.
>>>
>>> Secondly, stating this again, he didn't travel simply to attend the
meeting, he was given a set agenda to speak that is 'Conflict Resolution'. It was
a subject of one's personal merit on which the organising committee invited him, this
cannot be passed to other members of the same affiliate.
>>>> 4) Lastly, Wikimania and Wikimedia Conference are not the same. Whereas
Wikimedia Conference is for affiliates, Wikimania is for volunteers. So, sending an
affiliate representative with the donation money, depriving a Wikimedia volunteer who was
in the waiting list and supposed to attend the conference, is utter misuse of power and
money. Can you please explain that?
>>>>
>>> I do not think that if Wikimedia India President didn't go someone else
would have been promoted. CIS-A2K should give a clarification on this.
>>>
>>> Simply stating it once again, he didn't just travel to attend the
conference, he was a speaker. This is entirely a different subject.
>>>> 5) Lastly, did WMIN inform the volunteer who was supposed to attend the
conference, that Rahul Desmukh has been sent instead of him, because Rahul is the
president of WMIN whereas he is just a volunteer?
>>>>
>>> In response to statement 4.
>>>>
>>>> I am sure, you will read my e-mail carefully as I did to yours. Also, I
hope this mail won't affect the friendship between us and you won't take it
personally.
>>>>
>>>> Waiting for your detailed reply,
>>>>
>>>> Bodhisattwa
>>>>
>>>
>>> Additional Comment : When someone India is selected or rather invited to
give talk in an attempt to resolve the global problem. For me, this is a welcome step.
>>>
>>> I am sorry but again I find you to harsh towards the India Chapter. This is
my personal observation.
>>>
>>> Abhinav
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 5 Aug 2018, 11:08 Yohann Thomas, <yohannvt(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
>>>>> (sorry for the delay, just following the 24hrs email rule)
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Bodhi
>>>>>
>>>>> I would request you to please read my email completely. If you want,
I can give you an excerpt of my email, which should answer your questions.
>>>>>
>>>>> //In a similar way, our President Mr Rahul Deshmukh had earlier
attended the Berlin Wikimedia Conference representing Wikimedia India & then
subsequently was invited to Wikimania, especially the Chairperson's meeting at
Wikimania. You will find the agenda in the link below.
>>>>>
>>>>>
https://meta.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/Affiliate_Chairpersons_meeting_July_20,_2…
>>>>>
>>>>> With this invitation , Rahul Deshmukh had requested CIS-A2K to fund
its trip & they accepted his proposal. //
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Yohann Thomas
>>>>> Secretary
>>>>> Wikimedia India
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri 3 Aug, 2018, 18:33 Bodhisattwa Mandal,
<bodhisattwa.rgkmc(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi Yohann,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks for your mail.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you check the link of chairperson's meeting, you can see,
that many participants were not president of any affiliates, they attended the meeting on
behalf of the president. For example, Nahid Sultan attended the meeting on behalf of
Wikipedia Bangladesh (WMBD) as the General Secretary of WMBD. It is not mandatory to join
the meeting as a President of any affiliates, usually, if one representative of an
affiliate is present in that conference, he can represent the affiliate.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In Wikimania 2018, 2 EC members, Viswa Prabha and Krishna
Chaitanya Velaga, were present and one of them could have attended the meeting on behalf
of WMIN. Can you please explain, why WMIN decided to spend a huge amount of donation money
to send WMIN president to attend a meeting, where his presence is not at all mandatory.
Does WMIN consider these two members unfit to attend such meeting?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Waiting for your reply,
>>>>>> Bodhisattwa
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3 Aug 2018 6:05 pm, "Yohann Thomas"
<yohannvt(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Dear Bodhi & other community members
>>>>>>
>>>>>> First of all, I would apologise for the delay in reply. Wikimedia
India is run by 7 board members(as you are already aware) & any discussion on any
topic, requires inputs from all of them.. Since all are unpaid volunteers & have their
own professional lives apart from Wikimedia India, there was a delay in drafting a reply.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As it is a well known fact, Wikimedia India is a volunteer run
organisation. There are board members, who discharge their duties towards the chapter, as
well as serve their regional communities (as well as user groups) in their volunteer
roles.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Another well known fact is that, Wikimedia India still isn't
financially independent & is still dependent on external funding which is fraught with
regulatory hurdles, including obstacles related to FCRA.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Having said that, many community members juggle their different
roles in community, affiliates, committees & in personal & professional roles to
attend different conferences run by the Wikimedia & its volunteers around the world.
>>>>>> In a similar way, our President Mr Rahul Deshmukh had earlier
attended the Berlin Wikimedia Conference representing Wikimedia India & then
subsequently was invited to Wikimania, especially the Chairperson's meeting at
Wikimania. You will find the agenda in the link below.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
https://meta.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/Affiliate_Chairpersons_meeting_July_20,_2…
>>>>>>
>>>>>> With this invitation , Rahul Deshmukh had requested CIS-A2K to
fund its trip & they accepted his proposal.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Going a little off topic & concluding my email, I would
really want to appreciate & acknowledge the work done by Abhinav on & offline in
relation to the chapter. Eventhough Abhinav, prematurely left the chapter before his term
expired, he still continues to support the chapter on different issues, inspite of us
still battling with all our regulatory hurdles. I wish there were more such vocal well
wishers, when the chapter is going through a difficult time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>> Yohann Thomas
>>>>>> Secretary
>>>>>> Wikimedia India
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----
>>>>>>> On Fri 27 Jul, 2018, 12:32 Bodhisattwa Mandal,
<bodhisattwa.rgkmc(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> WMIN chapter president Rahul Deshmukh attended Wikimania 2018
in Cape Town without being selected for any type of scholarship. My question is why was he
sent to the conference depriving other community members from India who were in the
waiting list.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> He spoke in the informal chairpersons' meetup for few
minutes. The meeting doesn't require president of the organization's presence, and
already there were 2 EC member of WMIN present, who could have attended the meeting.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To me, this is utter misuse of power and abuse of donation
money.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>> Bodhisattwa
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
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