Oliver Keyes wrote: playing I think obstructing the content area (article area) should be unquestionably off-limits. I'm not sure how this ever even became negotiable. At a minimum, the tab needs to be moved to the sidebar side so that it's out of the way. There's no feedback that you're soliciting that's so important that it should stand in the way of reading an infobox or other actual page content. MZMcBride _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

When this feature is enabled in other projects? It is very useful, and necessary for all Wikimedia wikis. Thanks! 2012/2/9, Oliver Keyes <okeyes(a)wikimedia.org>rg>: We're important page -- --Minh Huy (Minata Hatsune) ---volunteer and translator of the Wikimedia Foundation--- _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

Uhm. Can I require to enable in any project through MediaZilla (such as my homewiki)? Anyway, it should be deployment to many wiki, help improve content quality. 2012/2/9, Oliver Keyes <okeyes(a)wikimedia.org>rg>: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l -- --Minh Huy (Minata Hatsune) ---volunteer and translator of the Wikimedia Foundation--- _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

Okay, Minata: looks like I was right; if wikis want it after the design process is finished, they can just ask for it.

On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 12:45 PM, Brandon Harris <bharris(a)wikimedia.org> wrote: What is informal about our process? * Community gains consenus for feature to be activated (and the desired config if required) * Bug gets filled in BugZilla * Extension is translated if needed at TranslateWiki (If needed) * Eventually gets activated by a Shellie. _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

Minata: I imagine the plan is "deploy on enwiki, and if other wikis ask for it, they can have it too", but I'll find out :). In reply to "It allows readers to provide feedback; that feedback is not likely to result in improvements except in rare cases" - actually, no. We ran several rounds of hand-coding, and between 35-70 percent (rounding; it depends on which form you use, and which criteria) of feedback is deemed useful by editors. This could be praise for the article, suggestions for new things, or notes of errors with existing content.

On the first one, no idea - if you have any idea how we can test this without full deployment, please, go ahead.

On the second, it should scale; we're using a randomised sample (minus DAB pages)

We'll experiment with wordings as the testing progresses. On your other point - again, how can we find this out without testing it? If little is done with it, we can look into junking it, but nothing ventured...

On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 3:40 PM, Oliver Keyes <okeyes(a)wikimedia.org> wrote: you say that you have existing feedback, and contributors have seen this feedback. You *can* already determine whether that feedback (already in hand) resulted in article improvements. -- John Vandenberg _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

On 9 February 2012 09:04, <neil(a)thebabbages.com> wrote: suggestions and take it no further rather than take the next step and begin editing themselves. At present, the average reader doesn't even fix typos. contributing. It also implicitly makes it "someone else's problem" to fix things compared to our current stock response of "if you see things that could be better, fix it yourself. " I'm not saying this is intended but it runs the risk of making projects look they have people exercising editorial control. If it's getting any increased reader participation in any way at all, that's a big improvement over the present. Let's see how it works out. (With numbers.) - d. _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

A couple quick comments: For folks that are interested in this topic, please consider attending Oliver's Office Hours on the topic. Oliver hosts an IRC Office Hours approximately every week to discuss the project. Some are about specific topics (e.g.., today's is about oversight of comments and is thus limited to oversighters), but most are general purpose discussion where we discuss stuff like design direction, general workflows, and DATA. Here's a link to the WMF office hours schedule (Oliver's Office Hours are always listed here): http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours One of the goals of this project is, as David states, increasing reader engagement. Ultimately, we hope that a percentage of the readers that leave constructive comments will become editors. We need to add feedback loops where if someone leaves a great comment that's acted on by the editors, that reader gets notified. Hopefully that loop will work to draw in readers by piquing their curiosity (and also providing some positive feedback of "Hey look! They took my suggestion -- and by the way, what are they doing on this talk page thing. . ." We need to get through a few more baseline features before we start thinking more closely about the feedback loop, but I at least wanted to put it out there. Also, there will be some readers that simply will not become editors, and I think that's okay. Having them provide constructive feedback about what their information needs are as readers, I think, is better than having them not involved at all. There is, of course, the signal to noise ratio, which is one of the things that Oliver, Aaron Halfaker, and Dario have spent quite a bit of time researching. Having said that, we do need to be careful about creating a "someone else's problem" dynamic. One way to do this is to keep making sure these readers know that they can make the change themselves. Howie On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 5:00 AM, Oliver Keyes <okeyes(a)wikimedia.org> wrote: be 2,000 fix that _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

As said above...it is being moved ;p

MZMcBride wrote: As said above...it is being moved ;p