Hi dear Lodewijk,
I turn to you as a one of most up-loader photos in the world. I think it is no correct,
when unwillingly users moves to other arrangements. I couldn't understand Azerbaijan
country's people behavior. How can they explain, what most of participants in wlm.az (
http://stats.wikilovesmonuments.cl/?pais=azerbaijan , also see attached pictures) are
Armenians. Also, most of moved picture names written by Armenian letters.
In attached statistic you cans see "A.arpi.a, Vacio, Vagharsh, Aydinyan, Ghulyan,
Vahag851 users. They most uploaders after Interface and Urek Meniashvili, and because they
are wlm.az organizers, A.arpi.a becomes most up-loader for Azerbaijan country. Is it
correct ?
For me it unjustness and need to correct it. I can understand, when this action do with
new users, but when they do with wlm.az organizers, it's just shame for their
country.
If Azerbaijan's think, monuments in Nagorno-Karabakh theirs, they can go to this place
and take photos. It's their problem. But they just stolen 149 pictures from Armenian
WLM. It's unjust.
I require to reset all mention users pictures history to first state.
Best regards,
Arman M.
Четверг, 19 сентября 2013, 14:10 +02:00 от Lodewijk <lodewijk(a)effeietsanders.org>rg>:
Hi Vacio,
I don't quite understand your explanation - and I fail to see the merit of your
'solution'.
First, you say that you get a lot of complaints of Armenian participants because their
photos are tagged with an Azerbaijanian template. To me, this suggests that somehow, the
buildings on those photos are recognized by the Azerbaijan government as monuments. That
just means the Azerbaijan government thinks those are important buildings.
But then you say that the wlm.az competition only lets one city participate (probably
because the Azerbaijan government only recognized monuments in that city. That confuses
me, because it seems to contradict with your earlier statement that you get a lot of
complaints.
The situation as it is (or should be) now is, that people can add heritage templates when
a government recognizes that building as a monument. This is very helpful in many
situations because many people simply forget to add this information. This includes a
crazy situation where the Republic of Ireland (which does not participate by the way)
would recognize a monument in the middle of Azerbaijan, then also this could be added. It
is simply a sign of appreciation and matter of fact.
Also, when a picture is 1) a monument recognized according to Country B's national
definition and 2) fulfills the criteria of a given competition (submitted in the right
month, license etc.), a template indicating that the picture participates in Country
B's national WLM competition can be added.
Based on these templates, the relevant categories will be added.
But: this can only be /additional/. Templates like this should not be removed for other
countries (with of course obvious exceptions, such as if there is a clear mistake etc -
like last year when someone submitted the Eiffel tower in (I think) the Indian
competition).
I don't see good arguments to change this. I know this might be confusing and
upsetting to some people who feel strongly about these cases, but then we should make an
effort to explain that Wikimedia Commons, like Wikipedia, has a sense of Neutral Point of
View. We don't decide which country is right, or even whether a country exists.
Especially in these cases, we're focused on documenting these buildings, which clearly
both the Azerbaijan and Nagorno-Karabakh government agree upon that they are important
cultural heritage.
Lodewijk
2013/9/19 Vacio < vacio(a)riseup.net >
>Dear all,
>
>I lack the technical background to comment on the discussion
below. I just
want to say this: I am frankly not so much concerned
about which flag is placed where, or which country is mentioned
where. I am only concerned that I get a lot of complains from
Armenian participants of the contest, who see their photos appear
in the wlm.az category rather than wlm.am (at the result of manual
change of templates in their photos).
>
>Just to make clear why this bothers them. It is technically
impossible for
people who live in Armenia or Nagorno-Karabakh to
travel to Azerbaijan (let's say in case they become winners of wlm.az ). (There
are other issues as well, for instance, wlm.az seems to have only included the monuments
of one
city of Nagorno-Karabakh, while wlm.am included 4
provinces ).
>
>This means that they are practically excluded from the contest
(they have
no chances to win). So, I suggest, that we, the WLM
community, make a decision on how to solve this.
>
>I personally can think of two options:
>
>* We don't allow anyone to manually add templates to WLM images,
at
least until 30 September
>* We allow users to add only an alternative
template which will
not change hidden categories or any other metadata (I mean
an
alternative template of {{Cultural Heritage Azerbaijan}}).
>
>Please let us know if you can think of anything else.
>
>Vacio
>
>
>
>On 09/17/13 01:37 , Platonides wrote:
>>On
16/09/13 16:35, Aleksey Chalabyan wrote:
>>>Dear all, and especially those who provide
us with tools for running WLM
>>>contest.
>>>
>>>If on same page we have 2 templates, from different country
contest,
>>>with different ID, do you think scripts/bot
may run into issue?
>>>
>>>Will those tools successfully process both of templates, assign
>>>necessary categories, show up correctly in counters, voting
tools, etc?
>>>
>>>Example of such image is:
>>>https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:%D4%B1%D5%B4%D5%A1%D6%80%D5%A1%D5%BD%D5%AB_%D5%BE%D5%A1%D5%B6%D6%84,_%D5%BE%D5%A1%D5%B6%D6%84%D5%A1%D5%B5%D5%AB%D5%B6_%D5%B0%D5%A1%D5%B4%D5%A1%D5%AC%D5%AB%D6%80_....jpg
>>>
>>>Thanks beforehand,
>>>Xelgen
>>
>>The tools at
http://toolserver.org/~platonides/wlm2013/ will
consider
only the first template.
>>Last year the database was designed to support
a second country,
but it was so exceptional that it wasn't implemented. I
think we
identified a single case of multicountry monumentness before the
contest, plus perhaps a couple more found later for some rivers.
>>
>>I can easily add detection of multiple countries, the trickiness
starts when querying it, which not only results in more complex
checks for the database, but it's not even clear how it should be
defined: What should be the answer for "How many images have am
and az together?" Should Ամարասի_վանք,_վանքային_համալիր_....jpg be
counted once (as for "How many images are in total?") or be the
sum of images of both countries?
>>How to count the number of countries in which a
user did photos,
etc.
>>
>>
>>If the problem is limited to monuments in Azerbaijan and Armenia
contests, it may be simpler for the bot to detect that case and
internally map those images to an am+az pseudo-country.
>>
>>
>>PS: I agree with Multichill, renaming a monument template (or
adding
new variants such as redirects to it) will make the bot to
suddenly not detect the monument identifier.
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