I think you can use either in other contexts. I see the tradeoff being that the inclusion
syntax and templates for referring to properties of another item might be slightly longer.
For the example of children of Charles Dickens you definitely want to have each child be
their own item, as it currently is:
http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q5686. The question for
construction phases of Roman forts is whether or not each phase has enough information to
justify being a complete item. Although if you are ready to go right now then it isn't
really a question because qualifiers aren't implemented yet. I suggest creating the
extra properties you need and creating separate items for the construction phases, even if
they only have a few properties each, and then later on if downgrading them to just
qualified values of properties for the main fort item simplifies some of your queries,
inclusion syntax usage, and template boxes, then you can certainly do that.
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 20:44:39 +0200
From: saturnian(a)gmx.com
To: wikidata-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
Subject: Re: [Wikidata-l] A data model for Roman forts (castra)
Thanks Denny and Michael, it really
helps. It is indeed a major difference between string enumerations
of XSD and the values that should link to other items resulting in
a knowledge network.
Choosing between lists of values and own item as value, I would
prefer usually an own item because it could be
used in other context, e.g. a sentence. A good example could be
"The <children of Charles Dickens - Qxxxxxxxx> were younger
than ...".
On 03/27/2013 04:53 PM, Michael Hale wrote:
Regarding the construction phases complex type that
you want you have a couple of options. Properties support lists
of values, so you could split the type into multiple properties
and give a list of values for each. Then when qualifiers are
added you could add a date range qualifier to each value to
specify the phase or just use string qualifiers that say "phase
1", "phase 2", etc. depending on how detailed the information
is. You can also group the properties in their own item. So you
could create an item called "Potaissa phase 1 construction
details" and then have construction phase just be a list of
those specific items, which themselves contain the information.
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 12:55:18 +0100
From: denny.vrandecic(a)wikimedia.de
To: wikidata-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
Subject: Re: [Wikidata-l] A data model for Roman forts
(castra)
I would say this is a good starting point. The
Wikidata data model is described in full detail here [1],
and a introductory primer is given here [2]. Qualifiers are
not implemented yet, but will be there soon, and followed by
more datatypes (like time, geo, etc.).
The major difference is that values like "stone" for
material or "opus-quadratum" for technique should not be
strings - this does not translate well. They should be
pointing to items, e.g. Q8063 instead of "stone"
and Q2631941 instead of "opus-quadratum".
The other thing is that Wikidata does not really intend
to enable constraints in that very strong sense that your
schema chooses. So if someone wants to add a value for
material that you did not preconceive, like Q40861
(Marble), Wikidata-as-a-software will not stop them from
doing so (just as Wikipedia-as-a-software does not stop
you from entering that, either) (see also [3]).
I hope this helps,
Denny
[1]
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikidata/Data_model
[2]
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikidata/Notes/Data_model_primer
[3]
http://blog.wikimedia.de/2013/02/22/restricting-the-world/
2013/3/27 Flaviu <flaviu(a)gmx.com>
I fully agree with you that the XSD model cannot
by precisely integrated into Wikidata and also I
know Wikidata development is in progress. I think I
could deal with simple properties like "material"
but I'm not sure how to deal with complex properties
like "construction phases" I'm not sure. Even if it
is no implementation yet, how these complex
properties could be defined?
On 03/26/2013 11:53 PM, Michael Hale wrote:
You can't integrate the XSD model
precisely as it is defined because Wikidata
doesn't allow all of the constraints that XSD
allows. Specifically, you'll notice that you
can't force an item to have a specific
property (like the document or epigraphic
reference in your model) and enumerations
aren't currently supported. Wikidata has a
global collection of properties and any item
can use any arbitrary subset of them. The list
is here:
http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:List_of_properties.
Some of the ones you want already exist, like
material used for a building.
http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P186 You'll
want to propose the other ones you want here:
http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal.
I just added two statements (when you use a
property, called a claim without references)
to the Potaissa item that you use as an
example.
http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q7234612
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2013 22:50:52
+0200
From: saturnian(a)gmx.com
To: wikidata-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
Subject: [Wikidata-l] A data model for
Roman forts (castra)
Hi all,
I recently attended "Wikidata meets
archeology" symposium and I came
across the question how a well
structured and comprehensive data model
of Roman forts (castra) could be
integrated into Wikidata and then used
on Wikipedia. For this I developed a
raw XSD model based on the data
model of Wikipedia's Infobox castrum. I
put this model on the talk page
adding also a
simple example. I would like to know
this data model could be integrated
into Wikidata? It is feasible? Is it
too complex?
Thank you,
Saturnian
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