I will wait, no problem :-) . Even if some features are not present,
it's good to have clear ideas in mind. Maybe I should start proposing
properties because I don't know how long will take the acceptance of
such fancy properties like "construction phases of castra" :-)
On 03/27/2013 09:07 PM, Denny Vrandečić wrote:
Oh, I would please ask to wait another week or two,
for us to have
qualifiers. Maybe they can deal with some of these cases. We just got
them demoed today, and they really look neat, so I am very convinced
they will be there with the next update.
2013/3/27 Michael Hale <hale.michael.jr(a)live.com
<mailto:hale.michael.jr@live.com>>
I think you can use either in other contexts. I see the tradeoff
being that the inclusion syntax and templates for referring to
properties of another item might be slightly longer. For the
example of children of Charles Dickens you definitely want to have
each child be their own item, as it currently is:
http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q5686. The question for construction
phases of Roman forts is whether or not each phase has enough
information to justify being a complete item. Although if you are
ready to go right now then it isn't really a question because
qualifiers aren't implemented yet. I suggest creating the extra
properties you need and creating separate items for the
construction phases, even if they only have a few properties each,
and then later on if downgrading them to just qualified values of
properties for the main fort item simplifies some of your queries,
inclusion syntax usage, and template boxes, then you can certainly
do that.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 20:44:39 +0200
From: saturnian(a)gmx.com <mailto:saturnian@gmx.com>
To: wikidata-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
<mailto:wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
Subject: Re: [Wikidata-l] A data model for Roman forts (castra)
Thanks Denny and Michael, it really helps. It is indeed a major
difference between string enumerations of XSD and the values that
should link to other items resulting in a knowledge network.
Choosing between lists of values and own item as value, I would
prefer usuallyan own item because it could be used in other
context, e.g. a sentence. A good example could be "The <children
of Charles Dickens - Qxxxxxxxx> were younger than ...".
On 03/27/2013 04:53 PM, Michael Hale wrote:
Regarding the construction phases complex type that you want
you have a couple of options. Properties support lists of
values, so you could split the type into multiple properties
and give a list of values for each. Then when qualifiers are
added you could add a date range qualifier to each value to
specify the phase or just use string qualifiers that say
"phase 1", "phase 2", etc. depending on how detailed the
information is. You can also group the properties in their own
item. So you could create an item called "Potaissa phase 1
construction details" and then have construction phase just be
a list of those specific items, which themselves contain the
information.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 12:55:18 +0100
From: denny.vrandecic(a)wikimedia.de
<mailto:denny.vrandecic@wikimedia.de>
To: wikidata-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
<mailto:wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
Subject: Re: [Wikidata-l] A data model for Roman forts (castra)
I would say this is a good starting point. The Wikidata data
model is described in full detail here [1], and a introductory
primer is given here [2]. Qualifiers are not implemented yet,
but will be there soon, and followed by more datatypes (like
time, geo, etc.).
The major difference is that values like "stone" for material
or "opus-quadratum" for technique should not be strings - this
does not translate well. They should be pointing to items,
e.g. Q8063 instead of "stone" and Q2631941 instead of
"opus-quadratum".
The other thing is that Wikidata does not really intend to
enable constraints in that very strong sense that your schema
chooses. So if someone wants to add a value for material that
you did not preconceive, like Q40861 (Marble),
Wikidata-as-a-software will not stop them from doing so (just
as Wikipedia-as-a-software does not stop you from entering
that, either) (see also [3]).
I hope this helps,
Denny
[1]
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikidata/Data_model
[2]
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikidata/Notes/Data_model_primer
[3]
http://blog.wikimedia.de/2013/02/22/restricting-the-world/
2013/3/27 Flaviu <flaviu(a)gmx.com <mailto:flaviu@gmx.com>>
I fully agree with you that the XSD model cannot by
precisely integrated into Wikidata and also I know
Wikidata development is in progress. I think I could deal
with simple properties like "material" but I'm not sure
how to deal with complex properties like "construction
phases" I'm not sure. Even if it is no implementation yet,
how these complex properties could be defined?
On 03/26/2013 11:53 PM, Michael Hale wrote:
You can't integrate the XSD model precisely as it is
defined because Wikidata doesn't allow all of the
constraints that XSD allows. Specifically, you'll
notice that you can't force an item to have a specific
property (like the document or epigraphic reference in
your model) and enumerations aren't currently
supported. Wikidata has a global collection of
properties and any item can use any arbitrary subset
of them. The list is here:
http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:List_of_properties.
Some of the ones you want already exist, like material
used for a building.
http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P186 You'll want
to propose the other ones you want here:
http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal.
I just added two statements (when you use a property,
called a claim without references) to the Potaissa
item that you use as an example.
http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q7234612
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2013 22:50:52 +0200
From: saturnian(a)gmx.com <mailto:saturnian@gmx.com>
To: wikidata-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
<mailto:wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
Subject: [Wikidata-l] A data model for Roman
forts
(castra)
Hi all,
I recently attended "Wikidata meets archeology"
symposium and I came
across the question how a well structured and
comprehensive data model
of Roman forts (castra) could be integrated into
Wikidata and then used
on Wikipedia. For this I developed a raw XSD
model
based on the data
model of Wikipedia's Infobox castrum. I put
this
model on the talk page
of Q88205
(
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Talk:Q88205) adding also a
simple example. I would like to know this data
model
could be integrated
into Wikidata? It is feasible? Is it too
complex?
Thank you,
Saturnian
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