Sam, as I don't think I understand what you are asking, perhaps you could ask your
question again maybe with an example distinguishing between written/oral/online/wiki.
Sent from my iPad
On 7 Mar 2015, at 8:57 am, Sam Katz
<smkatz(a)gmail.com> wrote:
To those following:
I think this is a valid question I am raising. The question of whether
written communication has a different way of relating than oral, in
the context of a wiki, which by definition is collaborative, tracks
users but allows anonymous editing, is a valid question.
Anonymity and pen names were first used often times by women.
I will also note that in terms of interface biases, Facebook and other
platforms (Acquia Commons) that use photos of their users as
adornments, to show what users have posted do worse than wikipedia in
terms of encouraging safety and courage ("be bold in editing") among
their users.
Clarifying what the question is in this thread is a good first step
towards answering it. If I was confused, I stand corrected, but I
believe this is an important discussion to have.
> On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 4:18 PM, Kerry Raymond <kerry.raymond(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> Do you say that as a man or as a woman?
>
> As a woman, you are assumed to be male routinely in real life and online.
> Many people make no effort whatsoever, letters addressed to "Dr Sir" etc.
>
> Has it got better over the years? Yes, in my real life, it has got somewhat
> better over the years. But getting involved in Wikipedia and its discussions
> about gender is like being back in 1970s. "Do we really have a gender
gap?"
> "Does it matter if we have a gender gap?"
>
> Kerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: wiki-research-l-bounces(a)lists.wikimedia.org
> [mailto:wiki-research-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Sam Katz
> Sent: Saturday, 7 March 2015 2:54 AM
> To: Research into Wikimedia content and communities
> Subject: Re: [Wiki-research-l] a cautious note on gender stats Re: Fwd:
> [Gendergap] Wikipedia readers
>
> hey,
>
> I just want to note that I am not convinced that gender expression
> online or indeed expression in general is the same as it is in real
> space. Granted, this may be stylistically what you are trying to
> prove. But I just wanted to add my two cents, that indeed it may not
> have a gender bias directly if the structure does not impose it.
>
>> On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 9:08 AM, <koltzenburg(a)w4w.net> wrote:
>> Hi Frances,
>>
>> your assumption (an "unknown" user in a language where
>> personal nouns are gendered will always display the
>> masculine form) is correct for deWP, I just tested it from a
>> new dummy account.
>>
>> you might call it a truly sytemic bias, and especially so
>> because community majority has not seen to changing that
>> space into gender friendly space for all, it seems.
>>
>> so this adds another item of disharmony to my cautious note
>> on gender stats
>>
>> best,
>> Claudia
>> ---------- Original Message -----------
>> From:Frances Hocutt <fhocutt(a)wikimedia.org>
>> To:Research into Wikimedia content and communities
>> <wiki-research-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
>> Sent:Thu, 5 Mar 2015 16:43:04 -0800
>> Subject:Re: [Wiki-research-l] a cautious note on gender
>> stats Re: Fwd: [Gendergap] Wikipedia readers
>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 4:30 PM, Mark J. Nelson
>>> <mjn(a)anadrome.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Frances Hocutt <fhocutt(a)wikimedia.org> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> One change that could address the latter incentive is
>> to change the
>>>>> defaults on MediaWiki so that masculine grammatical
>> gender is not the
>>>>> default for new users. It could be randomly assigned,
>> and then some men
>>>> as
>>>>> well as some women would have the incentive to set
>> their gender
>>>> preferences.
>>>>
>>>> That's how it currently works, according to the manual,
>> with the default
>>>> gender set to 'unknown':
>>>>
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$wgDefaultUserOptions
>>>>
>>>> I'm not sure if that's a recent change, or what's in
>> effect on
>>>> Wikimedia's own wikis, though.
>>>
>>> I'm aware that it defaults to "unknown". My
>>> understanding--and please correct me if I'm wrong--
>>> is that an "unknown" user in a language where
>>> personal nouns are gendered will always display
>>> the masculine form (i.e. Usuario for a user of
>>> unknown gender on es.wp). So, a male user doesn't
>>> need to change his gender in preferences in order
>>> to be described accurately where a female user
>>> would need to set her gender in order to be
>>> described as "Usuaria". Hence, different
>>> incentives, and ones that could be addressed with
>>> different default behavior for an "unknown" user.
>>>
>>> -Frances
>> ------- End of Original Message -------
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wiki-research-l mailing list
>> Wiki-research-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
>>
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wiki-research-l mailing list
> Wiki-research-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
>
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wiki-research-l mailing list
> Wiki-research-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
>
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l