You're welcome, Kathleen,
It is frustrating, but but WP is not yet EB.
Paul
On Thu, Sep 26, 2019 at 12:59 PM Paul S. Wilson
<paulscrawl@gmail.com<mailto:paulscrawl@gmail.com>> wrote:
Wikipedia POLICY
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Policies_and_guidelines<https://…
On Thu, Sep 26, 2019 at 12:54 PM Paul S. Wilson
<paulscrawl@gmail.com<mailto:paulscrawl@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Not "individual practices"; this is an English Wikipedia Policy:
>
> >Do not use articles from Wikipedia (whether this English Wikipedia or Wikipedias
in other languages) as sources. Also, do not use websites that mirror Wikipedia content or
publications that rely on material from Wikipedia as sources. Content from a Wikipedia
article is not considered reliable unless it is backed up by citing reliable sources.
Confirm that these sources support the content, then use them directly.[11] (There is also
a risk of circular reference/circular reporting when using a Wikipedia article or
derivative work as a source.)
>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Verifiability#Wikipedia_and_sources…
>
> On Thu, Sep 26, 2019 at 12:24 PM Kathleen DeLaurenti
> <kathleendelaurenti@gmail.com<mailto:kathleendelaurenti@gmail.com>>
wrote:
> >
> > Hi all -
> >
> > Thanks for the responses. Regardless of our individual practices, I don't
see any good coming from Wikipedia positively asserting that it should "never be
cited," and that's the crux of my concern here.
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Kathleen
> >
> > On Thu, Sep 26, 2019 at 1:17 PM Paul S. Wilson
<paulscrawl@gmail.com<mailto:paulscrawl@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>
> >> I have never considered user-generated content on Wikipedia to be more than
what librarians call a "discovery service".
> >>
> >> Briefly skimming an article on a subject l may know little about, I
invariably evaluate the sources rather than the text and hit the cited references. In my
15-year experience, even the weakest and most apparently biased articles have at least a
few refs that lead to citable sources and larger literature.
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, Sep 26, 2019, 11:54 AM Merrilee Proffitt
<mproffitt@gmail.com<mailto:mproffitt@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi,
> >>>
> >>> I completely agree with Kathleen. I would assert that it is a lack of
nuance around the nature of information sources and the research task at hand that has
lead educators and others to wholesale "ban" the use of Wikipedia.
> >>>
> >>> Whether or not a source can be utilized in a research context depends
on the researcher, and what information they are supporting with the citation. For my
middle school daughter doing some investigation on an element in the periodic table (as
she has been doing this week), the Wikipedia English article (or any encyclopedia article)
is appropriate for her. For a graduate student in chemistry this would not be appropriate,
but the grad student might (appropriately) cite Wikipedia for some basic definitional
stuff, just as they might cite a dictionary or something similar. You see Wikipedia
utilized appropriately in citations all the time -- why would we discourage this?
> >>>
> >>> Having conversations about the veracity of online information is tough.
Wikipedia can be challenging because articles are at various levels of development. To my
mind, this makes it something that those of us engaged in conversations around information
literacy should steer towards, rather than away from, because a) Wikipedia is widely
utilized in a variety of contexts and b) it is a great teaching tool for talking about
when you can trust information online and when you should steer clear. But saying
"no" to any information source without having a discussion about it seems lazy.
It definitely does not reflect the type of discourse we should be having, especially now.
> >>>
> >>> I look forward to more discussion on this topic.
> >>>
> >>> Merrilee
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, Sep 26, 2019 at 9:02 AM Federico Leva (Nemo)
<nemowiki@gmail.com<mailto:nemowiki@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Twitter doesn't facilitate reasoned arguments. I suppose as
usual the
> >>>> goal was to encourage greater use of the references and other
> >>>> meta-content of Wikipedia articles, which are excellent tools for
> >>>> critical thinking.
> >>>>
> >>>> Federico
> >>>>
> >>>> Kathleen DeLaurenti, 26/09/19 17:55:
> >>>> > Hi all -
> >>>> >
> >>>> > As a librarian who uses and supports Wikipedia, I wanted to
bring up
> >>>> > some issues around the BuzzFeed article posted today about
M-Journal
> >>>> > that has led to some messaging from the WikipediaUK twitter
account that
> >>>> > I find concerning. I'm not sure if this is the appropriate
place to
> >>>> > bring this up, but I wasn't sure where else to reach out.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > For those who missed, a citation cite is not manufacturing
journal
> >>>> > articles if a student submits a Wiki article so that it looks
like an
> >>>> > "official" citation in their school research
papers.
> >>>> >
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ryanhatesthis/wikipedia-fake-academic-…
> >>>> >
> >>>> > Clearly there are some nefarious potential uses here, but
what's more
> >>>> > concerning is that the WikiUK twitter account has come
forward
> >>>> > forcefully saying that Wikipedia shouldn't be cited in the
literature.
> >>>> > Period.
> >>>> >
https://twitter.com/wikimediauk/status/1177215917534711808<https://urlde…
> >>>> >
> >>>> > I work very hard to improve the cite through my courses and
academic
> >>>> > advocacy as do many librarians. It's concern to me to see
Wikipedia
> >>>> > undermining its own authority in such a public way in what
appears to be
> >>>> > a misguided attempt to deflect association with the MJournal
site.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > Would welcome any insight or ideas on how to navigate this
discussion.
> >>>> > The entire M-Journal use case exists, imho, because we are
still
> >>>> > battling for a critical (not blanket acceptance) view of Wiki
as a
> >>>> > resources, and I find this kind of public statement to be very
damaging
> >>>> > to the hard work so many are doing to create a quality
information resource.
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Libraries mailing list
> >>>>
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> >>>>
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/libraries<https://urldefens…
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Libraries mailing list
> >>>
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> >>>
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> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >>
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> >
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