[Wikipedia-l] Be-x-old

[GerardM]

Hoi,
Dismissing this whole thing as purely technical is something that might have
worked in the past. In the present you have a conflict. This conflict needs
a compromise. Dismissing all this as something "technical" is consequently
not helpful.
Thanks,
     GerardM

On 3/30/07, Alexander Cajcyc <czalex at bk.ru> wrote:
>
> In that case a solution has already been found long ago, and the question
> is purely a technical one: one and the same Wiki, but with articles
> separated into "classical" and "official". As far as I know, this has
> already been implemented in other Wikis (e.g. Serbian?). So why not just
> doing the same with Belarusian Wikipedia?
>
>
> czalex
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: GerardM <gerard.meijssen at gmail.com>
> To: "Alexander Cajcyc" <czalex at bk.ru>, wikipedia-l at lists.wikimedia.org
> Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2007 15:03:43 +0200
> Subject: Re: [Wikipedia-l] Be-x-old
>
> >
> > Hoi,
> > There is no choice when it comes to the names of the projects. The
> standard
> > is explicit; a private label is indicated by an -x- at the right place
> in
> > the label.
> >
> > Having two projects is also something I would be against; it does not
> bring
> > collaboration, it does not bring NPOV. You have to get your act together
> and
> > history shows that you now have to compromise big time. It has been
> > indicated that the actual differences are less than what you find in
> English
> > ... all the more reason to insist on collaboration.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >     GerardM
> >
> > On 3/30/07, Alexander Cajcyc <czalex at bk.ru> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi everybody
> > >
> > > I agree with Gerard that we must not deepen the conflict and hould
> find a
> > > solution that would satisfy all of us.
> > >
> > > Are we all, no matter the orthography, interested in the
> representation of
> > > Belarusian language in Wikipedia and in the usage of this tool for the
> sake
> > > of all Belarusian speakers no matter whether they prefer the classical
> > > orthography or the official one? Yes, we all are. So let's find some
> > > compromise.
> > >
> > > I propose to leave the official orthography wikipedia where it is now,
> OK.
> > >
> > > But you just CAN'T allow the 6000 classical Belarusian Wiki articles
> to
> > > get lost! The fact that the Belarusian Wiki was created as a Wiki in
> > > Taraskievica is a illustrative example to that the classical
> orthography has
> > > an important place in Belarus now, especially amoung people who really
> DO
> > > speak the language on an every-day basis, while you can even see that
> most
> > > forum conversations in the official-orthography Wikipedia are being
> hold
> > > in... Russian [what is not bad itself].
> > >
> > > So an ideal solution would be to rename be-x-old.wikipedia.org to, e.g
> .,
> > > be-classic.wikipedia.org or bel.wikipedia.org and to open it for
> editing
> > > so that it could coutinue its effective functioning.
> > >
> > > regards,
> > >
> > > czalex
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: GerardM <gerard.meijssen at gmail.com>
> > > To: wikipedia-l at lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2007 14:23:35 +0200
> > > Subject: Re: [Wikipedia-l] Be-x-old
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Hoi,
> > > > Please consider that if you have an option to work together, that
> you
> > > have
> > > > to talk. That you have to give and take. That you will always feel
> that
> > > you
> > > > give more than what you get.
> > > >
> > > > There are two groups of people who have fought each other in a space
> > > where
> > > > such fights are not appreciated. Assertions have been made  about
> "your"
> > > > language, "your" orthography, by trash talking the "other" language
> /
> > > > orthography. You do not get any sympathy in this way. When you want
> to
> > > > achieve something, it will be more beneficial to be seen to
> cooperate
> > > and to
> > > > find some coexistence.
> > > >
> > > > When this coexistence is hard to get because of the enmity that has
> been
> > > > created in the past, it only means that you will have to give even
> more.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >     Gerard
> > > >
> > > > On 3/30/07, Monk <monkbel at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi,
> > > > >
> > > > > How can anybody say that Yury Tarasievich and his project is about
> > > > > language, not about politics, after such a letter? No facts, just
> > > > > insults and speculations.
> > > > >
> > > > > > You are an entity, yes, set out to destroy the existing
> Belarusian
> > > > > > language and culture and replace it with your version -- okay,
> your
> > > > > > right. But get yourself your own blessed language code for that.
> > > > > This speculation with such aggressive words doesn't help your
> case, it
> > > > > can only make your case worse. I don't even hope any more that you
> > > > > understand that your outrageous insults are absurd. You just dig a
> pit
> > > > > for yourself by your own hands.
> > > > >
> > > > > > P.S.
> > > > > > Some years ago I witnessed a creation of one of such sites you
> call
> > > > > > "proofs". So, there was 1 tech and 1 editor, who re-edited
> > > everything
> > > > > > incoming (like 90+% or even 99% in standard Belarusian and
> Russian)
> > > > > > into his flavour of "classic". It was politics. Thousands pages
> (and
> > > I
> > > > > > mean real thousands, there was sort of 4800 or so) of pages.
> And...
> > > > > > grant money. I could add -- near to zero interest, excepting the
> > > > > > indexing bots.
> > > > > Another great example of lies. Where could they get any incoming
> in
> > > > > "norm" if people just don't write in it?
> > > > >
> > > > > Monk.
> > > > >
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