[Wikipedia-l] Vote on voting method for final round

[Guillaume Blanchard]

Erik Moeller wrote:

> Guillaume-
> > For example, imagine you want to select a color.
>
> Your black/white/gray example is perfectly applicable to our process.
> There has been the possibility of discussion during the entire logo
> submission process (for more than a month); discussions continued during
> voting, and even now after the submission deadline has been closed you can
> still submit variants and try to convince the artist to put these variants
> up for final voting. So I fail to see how and when we could or should have
> been trying harder to find compromise solutions. Many logos have been
> modified based on viewer feedback, especially NcWiki, Stygian's logo and
> Paullusmagnus' puzzle sphere. Some people have created vector variants of
> existing logos, others have changed the colors, and others have added
> their favorite mascot (*cough*).

Sorry, according to the discussion I read, I thought alternative logo was
not welcome. I effectively saw many intresting variant of Paullus logo (as
an example) on his own page, but they are not on the vote page. Do you
planed to allow to vote on all those variant ? I just regret that the rules
was not cleary defined before vote start and deadlines are so short. In
other hand, I don't disagree the fact that have an unified logo before the
big press relase may be a good thing.

> There have been some complaints (not by me) about Olie's attempts to get
> Miwiki integrated into virtually every logo. Are you saying these users
> should just shut up? What exactly are you asking for here? I think you
> should be glad that we have a formalized process in place to handle these
> variants, because otherwise we would now be knee deep in a flamewar about
> whether Olie should be allowed to do this or not.

I don't undertand why the fact Olie tryed to make variant of all logo with
his ant is a problem. Many people vote for logos where ants were (2 of the
10 finalist logos have ant inside). I suppose that mean many people think
the ant is a good symbol of community work. So I think it's really positive
to try to mix this symbol with other artist concept. It's the Wiki way,
isn't it !? People who don't like this symbol just have to don't vote for
it. Accuse Olie to only want to promote his mascot is as wrongful as
deplorable.

> > I agree consensus become harder as we get bigger. But instead of switch
> > decision process to a standard vote method, we can perhaps just create
some
> > rules to make consensus easier to achieve.
>
> I fail to see how it will ever be possible to achieve "consensus" on which
> logo to pick from a selection of more than 130. Feel free to prove me
> wrong -- just leave a message on the user talk page of everyone who voted
> and tell them your arguments why you think a particular logo or compromise
> should be used.
>
> Realistically, when you stop using voting for decisions like this, you
> will end up with a cabal that makes decisions for the majority of users.
> The funny thing is: I think the people who complain about voting would not
> complain about such a cabal -- because they know that the only alternative
> is voting, which they despise.

Please read the answer I made about "dynamic vote".

> > If I enter the debate it's just because I worried to see Oliezekat spend
all
> > his time to try to found alternative proposition (he really worked hard)
and
> > to be bother just because he didn't strictly respect the saintly rules.
>
> I did not "bother" Olie about anything. Which "saintly rules" do you think
> should be relaxed? Should Olie be allowed to submit his Miwiki variants
> for final voting even if the artists do not agree? What exactly do you
> want? If you just want to express your solidarity with the Miwiki
> campaign, well, maybe there are other places to do that.

I didn't think especially to you about "bother" ;o)
I thought that as puzzle-globe, sun-flower or dove (just few example), the
ant is an intresting concept. I don't see any problem to allow artist to mix
those concept to make new proposition. In fact, imho, I think we had better
to first just decide what concept we want to represent Wikipedia and only
after, allow artist to create logo on those themes.
It may be great if people stop thinking all French wikipedians are just here
to try to promote MiWiki just because it was designed by a French.
Personaly, I like this concept very much, but I'm not sure it fit vey well
as a logo. The very famous (at least in France) book "The Ants" is perhaps
for something in the fact French like ants as much ;o)

> > Next time, a non-American organizer!?
>
> I'm not an American, but perhaps it's a problem that I speak
> understandable English. In that case, maybe we should try to get Brion to
> organize the next contest in Esperanto. Or how about Volapük? I hear it's
> all the rage with the kids these days.

It was a stupid non-sens remark (wrote too late in the night).
The positive point is that for me you speak as well english as I thought you
was american :o)

Respekt.

Aoineko