[Wikipedia-l] Re: Suggestions from Magnus, Mark, and Jimbo

[Vicki Rosenzweig]

At 03:16 PM 2/21/02 -0800, Julie Kemp wrote:

>Magnus -- I don't mean to offend, but you don't speak
>customer -- and I don't expect you to.  But to
>demonstrate my point, you just suggested I start a
>page (article?) with wikipedia: -- as if I know what
>that means!

I'm not sure I speak customer, but one of the things I've done as an
editor is translate, including between techies and non-techies, so I'll
try.

>Are you saying that, if I do that, it
>will create a special page and show up in the bar at
>the side?  I know you went to the FAQs and added
>stuff, but I really think you and the others are so
>closely involved in the programming side that you
>assume that we all get what you're talking about.

I don't know the answer to this.


>There are lots of people out there who have
>programming backgrounds -- but lots more who don't.
>You also seem to think users are intelligent beings.

Users are intelligent beings. That they don't speak tech
doesn't change this, any more than my not speaking Chinese
makes me stupid.

>Sorry, but years in customer service and training
>(including training in DSL, telco processes and an
>online SQL-based transaction coordination package)
>have taught me that you have to teach to the lowest
>common denominator.  Even people who are really bright
>about most things have trouble getting their heads
>round computer stuff.

Okay, but I don't think it helps to suggest that we're creating an encyclopedia
written and edited primarily by the unintelligent.
<snip>
>3)Is a namespace the same as an article and/or a page?

No. A namespace is a set of articles. "Talk:" is a namespace.
So is "User:" Like the main wikipedia, they can have unlimited numbers
of articles within them.


>4) Mark mentioned using parentheses rather than a
>slash in an article title to indicate what used to be
>a subpage (I think).  Does this mean that the article
>is independent, or that the parentheses associate it
>with a main article in a similar manner? How does this
>relate to the talk page generated with each article?
>(and for my own sanity, are they related at the same
>level or do sublevels even exist?)

The parentheses are to distinguish between two or more things of the
same name. Rather than have subpages, the wikipedia now uses a
"flat" namespace--everything is on the same level. (The following examples
are invented, probably not reflecting current actual wikipedia content.)
"Niger (river)" and "Niger (country)" distinguish between two entities of the
same name. Sometimes we can avoid parentheses by careful naming: the
former article could be named "River Niger," for example. But neither is
part of the other.

I don't think we have subpages anymore; if I'm wrong, please, would one of
the programmers correct me?


>5)If the system still functions in a way that says
>"subpage" to the users, is there any reason to even
>dicuss functionality?  It seems to be that the UI may
>still look like a duck and walk like a duck -- even if
>it doesn't talk like a duck behind the scenes -- so
>why not let the users think it is in fact a duck?

Does it function that way, though?

We allow the specific existence of "Talk" pages--but we don't want other
subpages. If we make it look and talk like a duck, and call it a duck, people
will start creating a whole flock of other waterfowl.

I hope some of this helps.

-- 
Vicki Rosenzweig
vr at redbird.org
http://www.redbird.org