[Wikimedia-l] Extensive feedback from WMDE to the FDC process

Wed Jan 15 19:22:49 UTC 2014

Those are all concerns I understand, and i am not in the mood to argue this
to win. Either result would be fine with me after a well considered
decision.

i merely put forward considerations of people (should all possible funded
entities be present - they are not guaranteed presence at one of the two
events) and cost (should volunteers, including volunteers of the FDC and
chapters, as well as independent activists, use their own money to discuss
how the movement should divide its existing money - at the current level, I
do not think it would be fair, at least it would not lead to an equitable
situation if certain volunteers and staffers are funded while others
aren't).

As for timing and outside participation, this is a judgment call to make.
You have to see if the FDC has the spare capacity to work on the current
round while discussing the future. Especially, as predictability would
normally require that changes be introduced with a delay so as not to
disrupt the current round and the planning for the upcoming one.
You also have to make an estimate, how many knowledgeable outside
participants are likely to be there and whether they (like the FDC advisory
group and participants of the Meta discussions) could be invited to either
Wikimania, WMCON or a separate workshop.

In all likelihood, I see two or more discussions and two overlapping groups
of participants. One of them are the technicalities of the FDC process,
where the people most likely to participate and be knowledgeable are the
FDC and the current and future applicants.
There is also a wider discussion of movement wide goals and strategy which
should not happen in any venue that excludes the wider movement, but could
still benefit from the input of in-person meetings of experts and movement
activists at numerous venues.

These are just ideas for consideration.

Best regards,
Bence

On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 8:03 PM, Dariusz Jemielniak <darekj at alk.edu.pl>wrote:

> hi Bence,
>
> I think that a discussion about the movement sources should be more open
> to people from outside of chapters, too and their input may nevertheless be
> valuable. Also, my wild guess is that Wikimania will attract many more
> activists of the movement than the chapter conference anyway (especially
> from outside Europe). The specific workshop can possibly be even squeezed
> in during Wikimania, although organizing it before/after it would likely
> allow to go into more details, and the increase in costs would be just by
> one night (and some of us could stay on our own, as I will if I don't get
> WMF coverage). Finally, I believe it makes much more sense to gather
> comments and feedback on redesigning the FDC process after Round 2 is
> finished (in May).
>
> best,
>
> dariusz
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 7:49 PM, Bence Damokos <bdamokos at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Thanks Pavel for sharing this.
>>
>> I think a bigger conversation will be on-going on Meta and in general on
>> where to continue it in the real world. It might be useful to keep in mind
>> that the movement has already invested and committed to bringing all
>> chapters (and possibly thorgs) to the Wikimedia Conference [the potential
>> funded entities] - it would be a marginal increase in cost to bring 10 more
>> members of the FDC (and anyone else who is required); whereas having a
>> meeting before or after Wikimania could lead to increased costs to every
>> single participant and could possibly leave out chapters and stakeholders
>> who cannot afford to send someone to Wikimania or to stay the extra days.
>> Either way, if we want to have an inclusive in-person consultation, we
>> have to invest in it - Wikimania might not be the smallest possible
>> marginal investment and without right policies in place could not be the
>> ideal to ensure fair participation (where all stakeholders are present, and
>> individual volunteers are not inconvenienced by having to pay from their
>> personal pockets for either food, travel or accommodation just to
>> participate).
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Bence
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 6:22 PM, Dariusz Jemielniak <darekj at alk.edu.pl>wrote:
>>
>>> thanks indeed! I agree with many of the comments (and yes, I don't like
>>> bureaucracy neither, I also am very much in favor of moving towards a
>>> collaborative and trusting process, although the way you phrased it
>>> sounds
>>> as if you've assumed we, at the FDC, are against it :)
>>>
>>> I think that beyond high-level philosophical comments there needs to be
>>> an
>>> actual down-to-earth discussion about details. There is a need for
>>> constructive proposals on what can be done differently and how, rather
>>> than
>>> what we don't like. This conversation should be done collaboratively, I
>>> think. I do not believe that the upcoming chapters conference is the best
>>> possible venue for such a discussion. First, most of the FDC members will
>>> not be there, and I think that our presence could be useful. Second, the
>>> whole FDC cycle has not finished yet (and it will finish in May).
>>> Finally,
>>> much more movement activists will be present at Wikimania.
>>>
>>> That's why I think that 1-2 days before or after Wikimania would be the
>>> best time to have an intensive, constructive session on the FDC model.
>>> Also, please note that there is an FDC review process ongoing (there is a
>>> community driven FDC-advisory group, etc.). Perhaps a good first step
>>> would
>>> be to coordinate this, <mocking mode on> rather than schedule WMDE-driven
>>> redesign </mocking mode off>.
>>>
>>> In any case, I'm glad the conversation is starting, and I think it would
>>> be
>>> good to actually schedule some time for a workshop about this. My
>>> suggestion is before or after Wikimania, as it is by far the easiest
>>> timing
>>> for many, including those who do not receive chapter support to attend.
>>>
>>> best,
>>>
>>> dariusz "pundit"
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 6:05 PM, Itzik Edri <itzik at infra.co.il> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Thank you Pavel and WMDE board, this is indeed a great constructive
>>> > feedback and I strongly agree with most of the your arguments and
>>> concerns.
>>> >
>>> > Itzik
>>> > WMIL
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 6:36 PM, Pavel Richter
>>> > <pavel.richter at wikimedia.de>wrote:
>>> >
>>> > > Hello everybody,
>>> > >
>>> > > I have just posted an extensive feedback from WMDE on the FDC process
>>> > here
>>> > > on meta:
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:APG/FDC_portal/Comments/Extensive_feedback_from_WMDE_to_the_FDC_process
>>> > >
>>> > > The statement was drafted by WMDE's Supervisory Board and myself.
>>> > >
>>> > > We are very much looking forward to a discussion and I would like to
>>> > > encourage everybody to share their thoughts. At the same it would be
>>> > great
>>> > > if we could keep the discussion on meta so that we have everything
>>> in one
>>> > > place.
>>> > >
>>> > > All the Best,
>>> > >
>>> > > Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
>>> > >
>>> > > Pavel Richter
>>> > > Vorstand
>>> > >
>>> > > Wikimedia Deutschland e.V.
>>> > > Tel.: +49 - 30 - 219 158 260
>>> > > Twitter: @pavel
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> __________________________
>>> dr hab. Dariusz Jemielniak
>>> profesor zarządzania
>>> kierownik katedry Zarządzania Międzynarodowego
>>> i centrum badawczego CROW
>>> Akademia Leona Koźmińskiego
>>> http://www.crow.alk.edu.pl
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>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
> __________________________
> dr hab. Dariusz Jemielniak
> profesor zarządzania
> kierownik katedry Zarządzania Międzynarodowego
> i centrum badawczego CROW
> Akademia Leona Koźmińskiego
> http://www.crow.alk.edu.pl
>