[Wikimedia-l] Please, let's save the Wikipedia - from itself

Thu Sep 5 10:57:33 UTC 2013

Unable to deal with serious online conflict appears to involve the bulk
of humanity and includes massive demographics we want, and need, to
include.

Fred

> Some _are_ better at it than others. Also some are better at editing then
> dealing with other people, and some are just unable to deal with other
> people in an environment where to a large extent, one is not held
> accountable for one's actions. This is the downside of anonymity. en:WP
> is
> in general not a very friendly environment. I am not saying that the
> majority of editors are unfriendly, but there is enough of an impact from
> the antisocial side to make the average experience unclude some
> significant
> unpleasantness. Not everyone is prepared to tolerate that when doing
> unpaid
> work. When the unnecessary unpleasantness is dealt out by adminitrators,
> people leave. When enough people leave, the progect stagnates and
> eventually
> collapses. Fortunately it is likely that the pieces will be picked up by
> another project, so the work will not be lost.
> Cheers,
> Peter Southwood
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Josh Lim" <jamesjoshualim at yahoo.com>
> To: "Wikimedia Mailing List" <wikimedia-l at lists.wikimedia.org>
> Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2013 6:01 AM
> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Please, let's save the Wikipedia - from itself
>
>
>>I think what we need to consider here is where the loyalties of many of
>>these so-called "problematic" editors reside, whether their dedication
>> to
>>maintaining the content where their expertise has been valuable has been
>>harmful to the overall health of the community. While I think we are all
>> on
>>the side of Wikipedia here and we all have a genuine interest in
>> improving
>>the encyclopedia for everyone, we have gone to the point where we have
>>started to perpetuate the idea that some are better at it than others,
>>similar to that declaration in Animal Farmthat "all animals are equal,
>> but
>>some are more equal than others".
>>
>> There are many reasons as to why this is the case, but I guess we need
>> to
>> reiterate the need for us to break down barriers here, both between
>> ourselves as editors (step away from compartmentalizing ourselves into
>> spaces where everyone else will agree with us because we are familiar
>> with
>> them), and between ourselves as people. The latter, however, is very
>> difficult to do, and it is one of the challenges that we have to face
>> if
>> we will want to assure Wikipedia's future success.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Josh
>>
>>
>> JAMES JOSHUA G. LIM
>> Block I1, AB Political Science
>> Major in Global Politics, Minor in Chinese Studies
>> Class of 2013, Ateneo de Manila University
>> Quezon City, Metro Manila, Philippines
>>
>> Trustee (2010-2013), Wikimedia Philippines
>> Member, Ateneo Debate Society
>> Member, The Assembly
>>
>> jamesjoshualim at yahoo.com | +63 (927) 531-8301
>> Friendster/Facebook/Twitter: akiestar | Wikimedia: Sky Harbor
>> http://akira123323.livejournal.com
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Rui Correia <correia.rui at gmail.com>
>> To: Wikimedia Mailing List <wikimedia-l at lists.wikimedia.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, September 5, 2013 5:08 AM
>> Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Please, let's save the Wikipedia - from itself
>>
>>
>> Greetings to All
>>
>> Let me start by saying that I don't do much here at the WP, not
>> compared
>> to
>> people who make hundreds of edits a week. I would love to, have a long
>> list
>> of "to-do", but unfortunately time is not on my side.
>>
>> In my limited involvemet here, I have seen many a good editor leave the
>> project. Mostly, people leave because they can't take it anymore having
>> to
>> fight the 'blocks' of defenders that coalesce around certain topics.
>>
>> In itself, though not very healthy, such blocks forming around topis is
>> fine. What is not fine is that if any issue gets referred to a higher
>> process for a resolution, it is often the same people grouping of
>> people
>> previously involved in disputes on the same topic who come to the
>> resolution forum to issue a decision. However, it is always the
>> 'outsider'
>> that loses. He gets acused of everything under the sun, and gets 'good
>> advice' from supposedly neutral editors, urging him to calm down, to
>> temper
>> his language etc. It is like trying to point out that the earth is
>> round
>> at
>> a monthly meetng of the fat-earthers. That is not healthy and is making
>> the
>> WP processes look like a kangaroo court run by a cabal.
>>
>> And I expect pretty much the same reaction to this email.
>>
>> I pointed out in an ealier email to this list the difficulty that one
>> encounters when you include something negative about certain big
>> corporations. I was stoned and made to feel that I was wrong and
>> everbody
>> else was right. The reaction was tantamount to a chorus of "yes, we
>> know
>> there are problems, but don't say it out loud, someone might hear
>> you!".
>>
>> Let's for argument's say that I was wrong. But - more importantantly -
>> was
>> anything done to investigate what I was saying? What if there are
>> legions
>> out there paid to sanitise the pages of big corporations? And we know
>> that
>> they exist, and that WP has taken up the issue as in here,
>> http://nick-xomba-ceo.xomba.com/microsoft_accused_of_paying_blogger_to_alter_wikipedia_articles
>>
>> I made a silly remark on a Talk page about the choice of the word
>> "downgrade" to refer to people using Windows 8 who wanted to go back to
>> XP.
>> For a failed product, by Microsoft's own admission, going back to XP is
>> an
>> upgrade, going back to sanity, not a downgrade.
>>
>> I was first accused of trolling, then something else, then of offending
>> the
>> entire community of users of Windows 8. The editor who is adamant - not
>> the
>> first time - to purge ant-MS from the talkpage violated the 3RR, but
>> nothing gets done about it. I reported the 3RR, and it was immediately
>> closed, labelled as being relatiatory. There is a backlog of issues on
>> that
>> page, but my entry was closed within minutes.
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Edit_warring#User:Codename_Lisa_reported_by_User:Rui_Gabriel_Correia_.28Result:_Closed.29
>>
>> It was closed, claiming that it was already being addressed elsewhere.
>>
>> So, I too will consider my stay here. Like I said right at the top, I
>> don't
>> do much here, so I am certain I will not even be missed. I edit in
>> eight
>> languages, small little bits here and there. I participated in a number
>> of
>> initiaves on the development of Chapters in Africa and am happy to see
>> that
>> things are moving. I had the honour and privilege to meet Jimmy Wales
>> in
>> South Africa and to discuss a few things relating to WP in Africa.
>>
>> So, it is time to wind down anr retire into a corner. I am busy with a
>> novel, I am sure that is where I should invest my time and energy.
>>
>> Sincere regards to all, happy editing
>>
>> Rui Correia
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> _________________________
>> Rui Correia
>> Advocacy, Human Rights, Media and Language Work Consultant
>> Bridge to Angola - Angola Liaison Consultant
>>
>> Mobile Number in South Africa +27 74 425 4186
>> NÃºmero de TelemÃ³vel na Ãfrica do Sul +27 74 425 4186
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