[Wikimedia-l] Please, let's save the Wikipedia - from itself

Thu Sep 5 08:23:37 UTC 2013

Some _are_ better at it than others. Also some are better at editing then 
dealing with other people, and some are just unable to deal with other 
people in an environment where to a large extent, one is not held 
accountable for one's actions. This is the downside of anonymity. en:WP is 
in general not a very friendly environment. I am not saying that the 
majority of editors are unfriendly, but there is enough of an impact from 
the antisocial side to make the average experience unclude some significant 
unpleasantness. Not everyone is prepared to tolerate that when doing unpaid 
work. When the unnecessary unpleasantness is dealt out by adminitrators, 
people leave. When enough people leave, the progect stagnates and eventually 
collapses. Fortunately it is likely that the pieces will be picked up by 
another project, so the work will not be lost.
Cheers,
Peter Southwood

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Josh Lim" <jamesjoshualim at yahoo.com>
To: "Wikimedia Mailing List" <wikimedia-l at lists.wikimedia.org>
Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2013 6:01 AM
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Please, let's save the Wikipedia - from itself

>I think what we need to consider here is where the loyalties of many of 
>these so-called "problematic" editors reside, whether their dedication to 
>maintaining the content where their expertise has been valuable has been 
>harmful to the overall health of the community. While I think we are all on 
>the side of Wikipedia here and we all have a genuine interest in improving 
>the encyclopedia for everyone, we have gone to the point where we have 
>started to perpetuate the idea that some are better at it than others, 
>similar to that declaration in Animal Farmthat "all animals are equal, but 
>some are more equal than others".
>
> There are many reasons as to why this is the case, but I guess we need to 
> reiterate the need for us to break down barriers here, both between 
> ourselves as editors (step away from compartmentalizing ourselves into 
> spaces where everyone else will agree with us because we are familiar with 
> them), and between ourselves as people. The latter, however, is very 
> difficult to do, and it is one of the challenges that we have to face if 
> we will want to assure Wikipedia's future success.
>
> Regards,
>
> Josh
>
>
> JAMES JOSHUA G. LIM
> Block I1, AB Political Science
> Major in Global Politics, Minor in Chinese Studies
> Class of 2013, Ateneo de Manila University
> Quezon City, Metro Manila, Philippines
>
> Trustee (2010-2013), Wikimedia Philippines
> Member, Ateneo Debate Society
> Member, The Assembly
>
> jamesjoshualim at yahoo.com | +63 (927) 531-8301
> Friendster/Facebook/Twitter: akiestar | Wikimedia: Sky Harbor
> http://akira123323.livejournal.com
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Rui Correia <correia.rui at gmail.com>
> To: Wikimedia Mailing List <wikimedia-l at lists.wikimedia.org>
> Sent: Thursday, September 5, 2013 5:08 AM
> Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Please, let's save the Wikipedia - from itself
>
>
> Greetings to All
>
> Let me start by saying that I don't do much here at the WP, not compared 
> to
> people who make hundreds of edits a week. I would love to, have a long 
> list
> of "to-do", but unfortunately time is not on my side.
>
> In my limited involvemet here, I have seen many a good editor leave the
> project. Mostly, people leave because they can't take it anymore having to
> fight the 'blocks' of defenders that coalesce around certain topics.
>
> In itself, though not very healthy, such blocks forming around topis is
> fine. What is not fine is that if any issue gets referred to a higher
> process for a resolution, it is often the same people grouping of people
> previously involved in disputes on the same topic who come to the
> resolution forum to issue a decision. However, it is always the 'outsider'
> that loses. He gets acused of everything under the sun, and gets 'good
> advice' from supposedly neutral editors, urging him to calm down, to 
> temper
> his language etc. It is like trying to point out that the earth is round 
> at
> a monthly meetng of the fat-earthers. That is not healthy and is making 
> the
> WP processes look like a kangaroo court run by a cabal.
>
> And I expect pretty much the same reaction to this email.
>
> I pointed out in an ealier email to this list the difficulty that one
> encounters when you include something negative about certain big
> corporations. I was stoned and made to feel that I was wrong and everbody
> else was right. The reaction was tantamount to a chorus of "yes, we know
> there are problems, but don't say it out loud, someone might hear you!".
>
> Let's for argument's say that I was wrong. But - more importantantly - was
> anything done to investigate what I was saying? What if there are legions
> out there paid to sanitise the pages of big corporations? And we know that
> they exist, and that WP has taken up the issue as in here,
> http://nick-xomba-ceo.xomba.com/microsoft_accused_of_paying_blogger_to_alter_wikipedia_articles
>
> I made a silly remark on a Talk page about the choice of the word
> "downgrade" to refer to people using Windows 8 who wanted to go back to 
> XP.
> For a failed product, by Microsoft's own admission, going back to XP is an
> upgrade, going back to sanity, not a downgrade.
>
> I was first accused of trolling, then something else, then of offending 
> the
> entire community of users of Windows 8. The editor who is adamant - not 
> the
> first time - to purge ant-MS from the talkpage violated the 3RR, but
> nothing gets done about it. I reported the 3RR, and it was immediately
> closed, labelled as being relatiatory. There is a backlog of issues on 
> that
> page, but my entry was closed within minutes.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Edit_warring#User:Codename_Lisa_reported_by_User:Rui_Gabriel_Correia_.28Result:_Closed.29
>
> It was closed, claiming that it was already being addressed elsewhere.
>
> So, I too will consider my stay here. Like I said right at the top, I 
> don't
> do much here, so I am certain I will not even be missed. I edit in eight
> languages, small little bits here and there. I participated in a number of
> initiaves on the development of Chapters in Africa and am happy to see 
> that
> things are moving. I had the honour and privilege to meet Jimmy Wales in
> South Africa and to discuss a few things relating to WP in Africa.
>
> So, it is time to wind down anr retire into a corner. I am busy with a
> novel, I am sure that is where I should invest my time and energy.
>
> Sincere regards to all, happy editing
>
> Rui Correia
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> _________________________
> Rui Correia
> Advocacy, Human Rights, Media and Language Work Consultant
> Bridge to Angola - Angola Liaison Consultant
>
> Mobile Number in South Africa +27 74 425 4186
> Número de Telemóvel na África do Sul +27 74 425 4186
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