[Wikimedia-l] It's time to reclaim the community logo

Thu Oct 10 08:27:45 UTC 2013

Thanks Dariusz for your wise words which I fully agree upon.

I my understanding this issue has three underlaying aspects:
*A legal technical one. What is the real meaning and implication of a 
"collective membership mark". A straight forward issue
*The spread among us community members between idealists and pragmatics. 
I see this difference being most manifested when we discuss  protection 
of articles often being vandalized. And here I believe it is a strength 
for the totality that we have both group among ourselves - it leads to 
more balanced decisions (but also often after heated debates)
* An old latent suspicion between "WMF/Board" and community 
member/Chapters. This is an old story and where we have lately seen some 
signs his "tension" was decreasing, our interaction and trust in each 
other becoming better. And sometimes this tension  is seen to be between 
Order and Anarchy, but I do not buy this interpretation. We should all 
in the movement actively try to live up to our motto "Assume good faith" 
at the same time as we of course should continue to discuss constructive 
our complex intraorganizational issues that turns up

I feel real, real sad when I perceive this issue, which is only an 
internal issue with all competence and input being within the movement, 
is turned into being handled outside the movement, inside a official 
legal framework. Even more sad knowing all key persons involved in this 
issue to be competent, very important to the movement and equally 
dedicated to our common vision/mission.

I have no advice to give how to get the issue resolved  or how to 
proceed or how to act, but urge all involve all involved parts and other 
actors within the movement to act so this issue can be taken back from 
"the outside world" and be bought back to the movement to be resolved 
among ourselves.

Anders

Dariusz Jemielniak skrev 2013-10-10 09:05:
> hi,
>
> while writing about "two individuals" was probably well-meant (so as not to
> point fingers), to my non-native ear it sounds unfortunately close to
> police reports lingo :) Also, while I perfectly understand why WMF needs
> external representation, and why Jones Day's in-kind donated support is
> used, it is also clear to me that the "two individuals" may feel cornered
> and perceive it as an move to resolve the issue by force (in the face of
> obvious disparity of legal brainpower and resources).
>
> I may be wrong, but my own and personal view is 100% in line with what
> Craig wrote: irrespective of the result, taking this dispute to court will
> be a failure on both sides.
>
> Ideally, if both sides could agree on a mediation by one or more parties
> acceptable to them, this could wind things down a bit and perhaps lead to a
> better understanding of the views (as well as of the legal mechanics and
> consequences of the choices). Also, since both sides act with a strong
> perception of protecting the community's interest in the way they see fit
> best, the community's wider feedback may help in resolving the issue.
>
> Just my two-cents.
>
> best,
>
> pundit
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 9:09 AM, David Gerard <dgerard at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Referring to John and Federico as "these two individuals" comes across
>> as attempting to depersonalise and deprecate your opposition. Are you
>> quite sure this is the effect you're after?
>>
>> On 9 October 2013 07:13, James Alexander <jalexander at wikimedia.org> wrote:
>>> The legal team have provided some background on the hiring on Jones Day
>> in
>>> this action. Here is their comment:
>>>
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Community_Logo/Request_for_consultation#Legal_representation
>>> James Alexander
>>> Legal and Community Advocacy
>>> Wikimedia Foundation
>>> (415) 839-6885 x6716 @jamesofur
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 3:56 PM, <tomasz at twkozlowski.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Federico Leva (Nemo) wrote on September 26, 2013, 15:22 UTC:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>   Trademark don't self-enforce, they are "enforceable" as long as someone
>>>>> believes to you when you use them as threat tools. So yes, I suppose
>> they
>>>>> might.
>>>>>
>>>> ... and given that the WMF just hired the infamous Jones Day bullies as
>>>> their representative before the OHIM to fight an opposition filled by
>> their
>>>> own volunteers (me and Federico), I don't think it's an unfair view.
>>>>
>>>> I suggest that everyone interested in the subject read <
>>>> http://www.dmlp.org/blog/**2009/sam-bayard/thoughts-**
>>>> jones-day-blockshopper-**settlement<
>> http://www.dmlp.org/blog/2009/sam-bayard/thoughts-jones-day-blockshopper-settlement
>>>> and related links for an overview of a 2009 Jones Day lawsuit against a
>>>> start-up company Blockshopper.com which Paul Levy called "a new a new
>> entry
>>>> in the contest for grossest abuse of trademark law to suppress speech
>> the
>>>> plaintiff doesn't like".
>>>>
>>>> I'm aware that, being a party of the opposition, I shouldn't really
>>>> comment on the WMF's litigation tactics, but it still leaves me wonder
>>>> about the point of hiring, as some say, "one of the worst trademark
>> abusers
>>>> in history", as their representative in this case.
>>>>
>>>>            Tomasz
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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