[Wikimedia-l] movement blog, not WMF blog, was: Go away, community (from WMF wiki at least)

Mon May 13 11:56:09 UTC 2013

I see I do have the timeframe wrong with the e-mails. Sorry for that, that
means I need to look up to other e-mails and send with Jay also. So far I
will stand by my claim. I just had the wrong e-mails. But now you are
saying you removed me 4 months after the RFC you removed me from the blog
and the mailinglist. That is when I was already unblocked on Meta and
Commons and all the other wiki's where I was active besides the Dutch
Wikipedia.

Nextly you only quote a part of Philippe sending the wrong signal (The same
as you blame me for doing?) The complete quote is:

While I find the deception here saddening, I do not believe it rises to the
level of a global lock/block/ban. It certainly shatters any expectation of
trust with me, but does not preclude the possibility of effective editing
in other places. I'm willing to put it behind me and move on, provided that
Abigor moves forward in a spirit of integrity and collaboration.

The biggest fact in the RFC is that there was invalid proof that the vandal
account was mine. But then you will need to read all the other pages
also... The pages you are not linking.

But then the fact is still the same. Months after the dramaz has past one
staffer decides without communication with the others that I  (and other
say they are also removed) need to be removed from the blog. And its to bad
that the original blog page is removed, cause if I remember correctly all
names are removed at the same time...

At last, you should stop attacking me. You will not get good faith answers
if you push me in a corner. Yes, I used different account. Also after my
block, and all those accounts got barnstars for good work on the Dutch
Wikipedia so no I am not a vandal just somebody with Autism that really
likes working on Wikipedia and will get a new account if you block me
because you can't handle my behavior.

On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 7:35 PM, Tilman Bayer <tbayer op wikimedia.org> wrote:

> On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 4:09 AM, Huib Laurens <sterkebak op gmail.com> wrote:
> > Tillman,
> >
> > For the record, the time between your e-mail and my request why the
> rights
> > where removed is FOUR days.
>
> That's a completely wrong statement. I emailed you as soon as I
> removed you from the wikimedia-blog list.
>
> > So yes. I stay by my claim I had to find
> > information myself. And showing the mails its visible that Jay didn't
> know
> > about the fact you removed me either.
>
> Which happened four months later. I guess we will have to accept your
> criticism that Jay does not possess clairvoyant powers ;)
>
> > So NO you didn't leave me a note when
> > you did it. I get your note four days later.
>
> Again you appear to be at least confusing things here, if not making
> them up outright.
>
> >
> > Other volunteers also said they where removed, and I will not post that
> > kind of e-mails online. But on the other mailing threat there you can
> read
> > it yourself also.
> >
> > When I was placed on the Wikimedia Blog I was already blocked by the
> Dutch
> > Wikipedia, That was no problem for Jay, Erik or the other people I worked
> > with? When I was blocked on the dutch Wikipedia I was also a moderator on
> > Commons, Meta, Incubator and a Member of the LangCOM and the LiCOM.
> >
> > So now your saying: You where / are blocked so you can't be trusted? I
> > guess that makes you a complete asshole. Since the blocks and NL.wiki and
> > lots of other wiki's are made of complete bullshit.
>
> Well, as I said in my Nov 2011 email, I did not want to pass judgment
> on your edits on other wikis, mainly because I hadn't fully read the
> discussions reading to these blocks. But let's link those on Meta, so
> others can make up their mind whether they were "bullshit":
>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Abigor
>
>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Steward_requests/Global/2011-07#Global_lock_for_Abigor
>
>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Steward_requests/Global/2011-01#Global_block_and_lock_for_user:Abigor
>
> Regarding "no problem for Jay, Erik or the other people I worked
> with", the first link has a comment by Philippe where he says that you
> "deception ... certainly shatters any expectation of trust with me".
>
> >
> >
> > On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 7:00 PM, Tilman Bayer <tbayer op wikimedia.org>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Huib,
> >>
> >> thanks for correcting your earlier claim in the main thread that you
> >> were never notified about this kind of thing (although unfortunately
> >> this correction comes only after your claim already contributed to
> >> leaving MZ "a little speechless" and feeling "more and more ...
> >> distanced from" Wikimedia).
> >>
> >> I can confirm that this is the text of an email I sent you on November
> >> 16, 2011 when removing you from what was originally the blog comment
> >> moderators list - with one crucial difference however:
> >>
> >> On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 2:47 AM, Huib Laurens <sterkebak op gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> > Hi Huib,
> >> >
> >> > we are currently reorganizing the internal communication about the
> >> > Foundation's blog, and in the process have just removed your
> >> subscription.
> >> > The list is going to see more confidential information in the future,
> and
> >> > we want to focus membership more on people who need to know it.
> >>
> >> Curiously, here you left out one sentence from my 2011 email:
> >>
> >> "And while I don't want to pass judgment over your work on the
> >> projects, the fact that you are currently blocked on Meta etc. makes
> >> it difficult to justify keeping your access at the moment."
> >>
> >>
> >> > I want to
> >> > emphasize that this has nothing to do with your conduct as list
> member,
> >> and
> >> > that your interest in and support for the WMF blog (e.g. tweeting new
> >> > posts) is appreciated. You can still send messages to the list, they
> will
> >> > just need to go through moderation.
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Tilman Bayer
> >> > Movement Communications
> >> > Wikimedia Foundation
> >> > IRC (Freenode): HaeB
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Strange that the blog is "internal" communications.
> >>
> >> You mean that
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-blog
> >> is not a public mailing list? It is my understanding that it was
> >> originally created solely as a channel of notifications about new blog
> >> comments that needed to be moderated; these obviously should not be
> >> public. Later there were efforts to make it more into a venue of
> >> internal coordination about the blog, although these did not quite pan
> >> out.
> >>
> >> >
> >> > Even stranger is that Erik asked to create my account, he was
> completly
> >> ok
> >> > with it. So I'm not sure what the information on the blog is so secret
> >> that
> >> > no volunteers can see it...
> >>
> >> Actually, you were the only volunteer removed at that point in 2011 -
> >> there were at least four volunteers who I think are still on the list.
> >> As indicated in the part of my email that you chose to quietly
> >> suppress, a main reason to handle your case differently was that you
> >> were at that time indefinitely blocked by the community on more than
> >> one wiki (to cite the block log entry from nlwiki: "Abusing multiple
> >> accounts: general project disruption and cross-wiki disruption; trying
> >> to evade bans on other projects, running unapproved bots and so on.
> >> block per RfC and cu evidence." )
> >>
> >> The fact that you are now trying to make your case by posting tampered
> >> emails reinforces my confidence that it was the right decision to
> >> remove you from this position of trust.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Tilman Bayer
> >> Senior Operations Analyst (Movement Communications)
> >> Wikimedia Foundation
> >> IRC (Freenode): HaeB
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >> Wikimedia-l op lists.wikimedia.org
> >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Met vriendelijke groet,
> >
> > Huib Laurens
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list
> > Wikimedia-l op lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
>
>
>
> --
> Tilman Bayer
> Senior Operations Analyst (Movement Communications)
> Wikimedia Foundation
> IRC (Freenode): HaeB
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Wikimedia-l op lists.wikimedia.org
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>

-- 
Met vriendelijke groet,

Huib Laurens