[Wikimedia-l] Fwd: Fwd: Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Wikimedia Servers and Copyright Issues
David Richfield
davidrichfield at gmail.com
Sun May 12 17:02:57 UTC 2013
I think you sent this to the wrong David... Good to hear from you, though
:-)
David Richfield
+27718539985
Sent from a mobile device.
On 12 May 2013 16:57, "Achal Prabhala" <aprabhala at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi David,
>
> On Sunday 12 May 2013 07:33 PM, David Cuenca wrote:
>
>> Hi Achal,
>>
>> For those cases there is a Wikisource clone called Wikilivres, whose
>> server
>> is in Canada and it is operated by a Canadian citizen.
>> http://wikilivres.ca/
>>
>
> Thank you - I've seen it, and think it's great.
>
> It is not very fast, but it serves as storage for such cases since the
>> Canadian copyright law is quite permissive in that regard (50 years after
>> author/translator death).
>> Then you can link the works from the Wikisource author page to the work
>> page in Wikilivres as some Wikisources do.
>>
>
> So while I'm glad there's a relatively central source for such things, I
> guess there'd be no problem hosting such content on Indian servers, say,
> for work that's gone into the public domain on the basis of Indian
> copyright law. My earlier email (and the originating question) was to how
> to mesh Wikimedia Commons and Wikisource with such work - and whether we
> could. Hence the interest in the law and its workarounds.
>
>
>> If you have time, take also a look to the proposed improvements for
>> Wikisource. Thanks!
>> https://wikisource.org/wiki/**Wikisource_vision_development/**
>> Applying_the_WS_values<https://wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource_vision_development/Applying_the_WS_values>
>>
>
> This looks great, and I was wondering if the last point on the list
> (working with other entities) also includes finding a way to placehold
> works that have gone out of copyright in other countries, and are hosted
> on, say, Wikilivres. That is, for people who consider themselves to be
> working on Wikisource, and are dealing with such works, is there anything
> you can offer them even if they have to host elsewhere?
>
>
>> David ---User:Micru
>>
>>
>> On Sun, May 12, 2013 at 5:27 AM, Achal Prabhala <aprabhala at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Of relevance here: http://www.publicdomainday.**
>>> org/sites/www.publicdomainday.****eu/files/World_copyright-****
>>> terms.jpg<http://www.**publicdomainday.org/sites/www.**
>>> publicdomainday.eu/files/**World_copyright-terms.jpg<http://www.publicdomainday.org/sites/www.publicdomainday.eu/files/World_copyright-terms.jpg>
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>> Subject: Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Wikimedia Servers and Copyright
>>> Issues
>>> Date: Sun, 12 May 2013 14:51:27 +0530
>>> From: Achal Prabhala <aprabhala at gmail.com>
>>> To: Wikimedia India Community list <wikimediaindia-l at lists.**
>>> wikimedia.org <wikimediaindia-l at lists.**wikimedia.org<wikimediaindia-l at lists.wikimedia.org>
>>> >>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Balasankar,
>>>
>>> The question you raise is a very important one. The solution, however, is
>>> not likely to be to host content in India (I don't speak for the
>>> Wikimedia
>>> Foundation, but there are sound legal reasons why all Wikimedia content
>>> is
>>> hosted in the US; mostly liability risk and freedom of expression and
>>> this
>>> is unlikely to change).
>>>
>>> The default across Commons and Wikisource, the two projects that host the
>>> bulk of public domain content (images, videos, sounds, books) in
>>> Wikimedia,
>>> is the US copyright term - it's the only yardstick that matters for what
>>> qualifies as public domain by virtue of being out of copyright. You are
>>> absolutely right, however, in that there's a big difference btw US
>>> copyright terms and those of other countries, for instance:
>>>
>>> For photographs, while the binding limit (Berne/TRIPs) is 25 years from
>>> the making of the work, India is life of photographer + 60 years after
>>> death, and in the US it is life + 70.
>>>
>>> For literary works, the binding limit (Berne/ TRIPs) is life + 50 years,
>>> whereas in India it is life + 60, whereas in the US it is life + 70 or
>>> 120/95 if made on work for hire.
>>>
>>> (The binding limit is the WTO mandated term that country members - US and
>>> India and 150 others - have to follow. As you can see, typically, most
>>> countries exceed the limit for reasons of their own, which they are
>>> allowed
>>> to do, with the US exceeding in far greater amount than India.)
>>>
>>> In short, there can be a difference of between 10 and 40 years between
>>> the
>>> time a work goes into the public domain in a country with shorter terms
>>> than the US (any number of countries in the non-Anglo-European world) and
>>> the US. This seriously affects even 'Indian' works (where India is the
>>> first country of publication) because of the copyright protection granted
>>> to such works in the US, thus effectively placing them under copyright
>>> for
>>> our purposes within Wikimedia long after they've gone in to the public
>>> domain in their source country.
>>>
>>> The case to consider here is Golan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/****<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**>
>>> Golan_v._Holder <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Golan_v._Holder<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golan_v._Holder>
>>> >
>>>
>>> A summary of the US Supreme Court decision in this case is - US law
>>> trumps
>>> international agreements, so the US copyright term holds within US
>>> territory, and restores copyright protection to any works that have gone
>>> into the public domain by virtue of a shorter copyright term in another
>>> country. Because Wikimedia servers are based in the US, Golan applies to
>>> us.
>>>
>>> But your question is an extremely pertinent one, and if we were to find
>>> unusual solutions to it, they would seem to lie in:
>>>
>>> 1) Whether hosting on US servers for a global audience makes any
>>> difference, since we do not serve readers only bound by US law (Wikimedia
>>> reader numbers bear this out, ie US readership = minority percentage of
>>> whole) and whether we specifically have anything special on the basis of
>>> which to mount some kind of strategic litigation on the issue of allowing
>>> us to exploit the shortest possible route to public domain anywhere in
>>> the
>>> world for all or some of our readers.
>>>
>>> 2) Whether hosting on US servers but using publicly audited geolocation
>>> to
>>> switch off for readers from IP addresses where the material in question
>>> is
>>> still under copyright is a legally and operationally feasible workaround
>>> (connected to whether Wikimedia Tech thinks this is both doable and worth
>>> our while to do)
>>>
>>> 3) Whether, if all fails and there is no getting around this in any way,
>>> Commons and Wikisource (if there is sufficient interest in those
>>> communities) should be interested in looking at a way of allowing
>>> external
>>> links to chapter-managed local sites from the US-served base to see the
>>> material in question; and if this is something, say, the India chapter
>>> wants and is willing to do, whether this route poses any legal risks.
>>>
>>> In any case, I passed around your question to a few friends for comments
>>> and suggestions - as well as to Geoff Brigham at the Wikimedia
>>> Foundation,
>>> who is not too hopeful for a solution but is very receptive to looking
>>> into
>>> it and getting back to us - and I'll tell you when I know something.
>>>
>>> Meanwhile, if you have other ways of looking into creative solutions
>>> around this problem (not at all easy to crack, but the benefits are
>>> significant) - or if anyone else on this list does - you should.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Achal
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Friday 10 May 2013 10:20 PM, Balasankar Chelamattath wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Srikanth,
>>>> I didnt quite understand what you meant by example.
>>>> An example for a work which is in public domain in India and not in US -
>>>> Works by Changampuzha Krishnapillai ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/****<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**>
>>>> Changampuzha_Krishna_Pillai<ht**tp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**
>>>> Changampuzha_Krishna_Pillai<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Changampuzha_Krishna_Pillai>
>>>> >).
>>>> He passed away in 1948, and hence it is 65 years after the author's
>>>> death. So the books are copyright-free in India as of now (in pubic
>>>> domain).
>>>> But they
>>>>
>>>> 1. were not published before 1923
>>>> 2. were not in the public domain in India as of 1 January 1996 (
>>>> because criteria of "60 years after author's death" not satisfied
>>>> on 1996)
>>>>
>>>> Hence they are not in public domain according to US Laws. So we cannot
>>>> store them in US servers.
>>>>
>>>> The main problem is India considers copyright based on date of author's
>>>> death and US does it based on date of publication.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Balasankar C
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2013/5/10 Srikanth Ramakrishnan <srik.ramk at wikimedia.in <mailto:
>>>> srik.ramk at wikimedia.in**>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi Balasankar,
>>>> Can you point out specific instances and show when and where the
>>>> book or publication was first published? If the works are still
>>>> copyrighted in India, then they should be copyrighted in the US as
>>>> well, generally speaking. The term India awards to creators is
>>>> lesser than the one provided in the US under copyright laws.
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 10:31 PM, Balasankar Chelamattath
>>>> <c.balasankar at gmail.com <mailto:c.balasankar at gmail.com****>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>> As most of you know, the Indian copyright law says that a book
>>>> gets relieved of copyright after 60 years from the author's
>>>> death. But this is not the case with US Law. As given here
>>>> <https://upload.wikimedia.org/****wikipedia/commons/9/9b/**<https://upload.wikimedia.org/**wikipedia/commons/9/9b/**>
>>>> Copyrightterm.pdf<https://**upload.wikimedia.org/**
>>>> wikipedia/commons/9/9b/**Copyrightterm.pdf<https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9b/Copyrightterm.pdf>
>>>> >
>>>> , of all the works published outside US, only those published
>>>> before 1923 are directly in the public domain. The ones
>>>> published between 1923 and 1977 without compliance to the US
>>>> formalities will be in the public domain only if they are in
>>>> the public domain in their source country as of 1 January
>>>> 1996. Almost all the other categories of published works will
>>>> not be in the public domain until 95 years after publishing.
>>>>
>>>> This induces a confusion and when looked in a legal
>>>> perspective, most of the books in Indian Wikisources, are
>>>> still not in public domain and hence must be removed. This
>>>> makes a huge negative impact on the hard work done by
>>>> contributors. Their contributions are wasted which may cause
>>>> them to stop contributing. In short, this may be a negative
>>>> impact on Wikimedia's image in the society.
>>>>
>>>> The only solution to this problem is to *host the servers of
>>>> Indian Wikimedia services in India*, so that the data we
>>>> upload is stored under Indian Laws. Can Wikimedia India
>>>> Chapter do anything on this? We can plan and conduct a
>>>> fundraiser in India to raise money for the hosting expenses.
>>>>
>>>> Please consider this issue with maximum priority as it
>>>> involves legal procedures and related headaches.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Balasankar C
>>>> https://ml.wikisource.org/****wiki/User:Balasankarc<https://ml.wikisource.org/**wiki/User:Balasankarc>
>>>> <https://**ml.wikisource.org/wiki/User:**Balasankarc<https://ml.wikisource.org/wiki/User:Balasankarc>
>>>> >
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Balasankar C
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -- Srikanth Ramakrishnan
>>>> Treasurer,
>>>> Wikimedia Chapter [India]
>>>>
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