[Wikimedia-l] Fwd: [Commons-l] FOP in Europe: does this include WWII monuments with art?

[Jane Darnell]

After discussing this issue with the daughter of a Dutch WWII veteran
(yes, she's old!) I have come to the conclusion that the logic for
handling photos of artwork on Dutch WWII memorials should follow the
same rationale as this one:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/Image:Boy_Scout_Memorial-27527.jpg

In that discussion, the whole category for the Washington, DC Vietnam
memorial was nominated for deletion, see here:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/Category:Vietnam_Veterans_Memorial
The last word on that discussion was "I called the Smithsonian and the
Park Service about this. Aside from laughing, they were confused why
anyone would assume that the copyright was owned by anyone except the
USGov, or that it wan't in the PD. I can't get anyone on the record
about this."

I would go so far as to assume that the same is true for Dutch WWII
memorials, and if we cannot come up with a good way of preserving
Dutch WWII memorial images for the Dutch Wikimedia community to use in
any Wikipedia project (so not just the NL wiki), then I propose a
Dutch Wikipedia blackout on May 4th out of protest, since obviously
the only hindrance is the fear of Wikimedia Commons users that they
will be legally pursued, and I assume that this fear is real enough
that we can go public with it.

On a personal level, as a Dutch citizen, I would be willing to be the
first to be tried legally on such an issue, and after my discussion
this morning, I believe I could crowd source my legal fees with
support from the Dutch Wikipedia community.

Jane

2013/3/3, Lodewijk <lodewijk at effeietsanders.org>:
> However, the location of the servers wasn't the topic of the original
> discussion :) So jumping back to that: Is there already a clear outcome on
> the Commons community regarding the possible deletion of images that are
> legal in the country of origin but might not be permitted under US
> copyright law?
>
> Lodewijk
>
> 2013/3/3 Fae <faewik+commons at gmail.com>
>
>> On 3 March 2013 06:50, James Alexander <jamesofur at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > On Sat, Mar 2, 2013 at 3:59 AM, Tobias Oelgarte <
>> > tobias.oelgarte at googlemail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> The problem are not the European laws. It are the US laws that don't
>> >> recognize the European FOP. That means it would be perfectly legal to
>> host
>> >> such images on an European server (in a country that recognizes FOP),
>> but
>> >> not on US servers, because they are subject to US law.
>> >>
>> >
>> >  I'm sorry, I keep seeing this argument and while I can understand the
>> > basic idea every time I see it I feel like little kitten dies. There is
>> no
>> > doubt that the US FOP laws are a little insane and that the EU ones are
>> > generally much more lenient, however, it is obviously far far more
>> > complectated then that. There are plenty of EU laws which would are
>> > applicable to site/image hosting which are far more complicated and
>> harder
>> > (or impossible) for us to follow. Overall the laws in the US have still
>> > tended to be much much better to host, and that doesn't even get into
>> > the
>> > problem of hosting in multiple locations and still trying to serve to a
>> > site hosted (or with staff) in the US.
>>
>> *No kittens were harmed during this discussion*
>>
>> We should keep an open mind, and the location of the servers to
>> support the global movement should be reviewed and seen to be reviewed
>> on a periodic basis, if nothing else international law, economics and
>> political stability, changes every year. By default, we would never
>> change unless there were jolly good reasons to justify the hassle and
>> expense; though folks are always going to enjoy challenging the status
>> quo, which is probably a healthy thing and the kittens get their
>> dinners regardless.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Fae
>>
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