[Wikimedia-l] Let's have the courage to sit down and talk aboutVisualEditor

[Peter Southwood]

It is not so much the presence of the button, that I ,and preumably some 
others, object to, as that if you switch from one wiki to another a lot, 
which I do, you tend to click on the wrong link a lot of the time, and that 
wastes time for absolutely no useful purpose whatsoever. The links should be 
static and easily distinguishable from the edit links on the other wikis. I 
am willing to help with beta testing, but only if they sort out the things 
that annoy me. If they dont, I will simply leave it to other people. When 
they run out of people willing to help then they will have to make changes 
to get them back. Its a simple supply and demand situation. If the devs dont 
supply what the users demand, the users will stop using it. Whether what the 
users demand is possible, practicable or even objectively desirable is a 
different issue.
Cheers,
Peter

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Gerard Meijssen" <gerard.meijssen at gmail.com>
To: "Wikimedia Mailing List" <wikimedia-l at lists.wikimedia.org>
Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2013 6:47 PM
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Let's have the courage to sit down and talk 
aboutVisualEditor


> Hoi,
> Quality like beauty is in the eye of the beholder. One thing that I 
> learned
> today is that the Visual Editor will have functionality that only the more
> accomplished editors will enter directly or they will use templates. With
> VE these templates are redundant.
>
> From my perspective, the future will be with the VE and not with the
> horrible tortuous templates that require study to use. One of the reasons
> why I prefer Wikidata over Wikipedia is that Wikidata does not have
> templates and is certainly as relevant. When I notice the improvements in
> the Wikidata experience, I can only applaud the improvements made.
>
> What is truly beyond me is that people protest the availability of the VE
> edit button. It is the choice of everybody to use VE or not. When they do
> they will have a similar experience I have with Wikidata.. You can only
> rejoice for the improvements that are made. Given that the improvements to
> the VE are a top priority, this experience can only be that much more
> enjoyable..
>
> For all the oldies who complain about VE I want to remind them about the
> Commons experience; Commons existed without any functionality. It took
> months before we could use the images in any Wikipedia.
>
> Really stop moaning and let that button be.
> Thanks,
>    Gerard
>
>
> On 31 July 2013 18:26, Marc A. Pelletier <marc at uberbox.org> wrote:
>
>> On 07/31/2013 10:52 AM, Federico Leva (Nemo) wrote:
>> > I think it would be helpful, if possible, to give some guesstimates of
>> > this, i.e.: how longer a wait it would cost us to reach some rank of
>> > quality if the deployment was downscaled; or, what would be the
>> > "deadline" for feedback on aspects X and Y to be actually able to be
>> > processed and worked on, before previous development decisions become
>> > irreversible or the developers move on to something else.
>>
>> Is it even possible to quantify this without just pulling numbers out of
>> one's ass?  It's not just a matter of "10 times the number of users
>> means 10 times the number of bugs found" since the /profile/ of the
>> users changes drastically as well.
>>
>> For instance, allowing the VE only for registered editors is guaranteed
>> to never reveal bugs/issues that only affects anonymous editing or
>> interaction between anons and registered editors.
>>
>> Likewise, requiring opt-in or allowing opt-out changes the makeup of the
>> users a great deal (the former making certain that only editors with at
>> least some familiarity with how we work use it and thus preventing
>> usability issues for "true newbies" from being found, the latter by
>> allowing the more vocal and knowing segments of editors to "hide" the VE
>> and no longer see issues they alone are well-equipped to notice or
>> evaluate).
>>
>> -- Marc
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikimedia-l mailing list
>> Wikimedia-l at lists.wikimedia.org
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request at lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> Wikimedia-l at lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 
> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request at lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>