[Foundation-l] Show community consensus for Wikilove

[Mateus Nobre]

We shouldn't be taken by the spirit of wiki environment. Sometimes, at Village Pump, through great debats and violent discussions, I feel like a lawyer, defending my point of view. We're more a tribunal than a colaborative and friendly ambience. Blocks are the prisons, and we're lawyers defending our opinions, supports are the witnesses.

Wikipedia has become more and more in a bureaucratic project until a few people understand its operation today. We are one of those exceptions that have come to understand the endless pages of policies. Do not think everyone can easily understand how Wikipedia works. Totally not. It's too hard guys, not everybody has that patience. We're few.

I think we (the Wikipedia community in general) gradually become more and more wikipedian and less humans. We become increasingly bureacratic, rigorous, severe, formal and boring. Virtually robots. Wikilove is a step against this process. 

We're not just talking about a tool, but a revolution in the way of communicative and collaborative Wikipedia. It is a way to make Wikipedia a family environment, not a court or an academy of letters. We need that. Wikipedia really needs that at all.
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MateusNobre
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> Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2011 19:12:52 +0530
> From: de10011 at gmail.com
> To: foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org
> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Show community consensus for Wikilove
> 
> On Sun, Oct 30, 2011 at 3:52 PM, Oliver Keyes <scire.facias at gmail.com>wrote:
> 
> > You seem to be missing my point - that the WL tool serves an ulterior
> > function of allowing users who do not understand markup to communicate and
> > request help in a way they can understand. I *am* saying that most of those
> > with few or no edits will have problems understanding markup, which is why
> > it's important, even without WL's core purpose, that the tool remain
> > available to new editors.
> >
> > On Sun, Oct 30, 2011 at 9:55 AM, Fae <fae at wikimedia.org.uk> wrote:
> >
> > > On 30 October 2011 08:06, Oliver Keyes <scire.facias at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Surely making it only available to those users who understand markup
> > > > completely undermines one of the great unintended consequences - that
> > > it's
> > > > really useful for posting talkpage messages?
> > >
> > > I did not equate "users with 10 edits" with those that understand
> > > markup, these are different things. My use of the word "template" is
> > > generic, in that Wikilove provides standard templates for user talk
> > > pages, this does not imply anything about the ability of users to
> > > understand wiki markup or html.
> > >
> > > Apologies if my language was not plain enough to avoid
> > > misinterpretation in unexpected ways.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Fae
> > >
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> 
> Those are two separate things. One, the delivery mechanism for Wikilove, a
> pop-up window on top of the userpage to select and click on a pretty
> picture and add a message. Second, the actual content, the
> barn-star/kitty/food template.
> 
> I disagree with Ironholds that it would be easier for a new users to
> navigate the hundreds of pages of commonly used templates and then find the
> right one to use and then use it correctly after customizing it, as opposed
> to you know, leaving a message in plain English. Last I checked,
> "pseudo-HTML markups" weren't a necessity for posting on a talk page.
> 
> It prob. takes someone at least a good 50-100 edits before they even know
> what a template is, then using and customizing the right one might take
> longer.
> 
> The delivery mechanism on the other hand is what I think is very useful for
> new users. There is an enormous amount of benefit if that could be
> customized for new users pre-loaded with some generic help templates they
> can actually use to edit, rather than spam love.
> 
> Theo
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